LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 15.5

Help for OPERA-L Archives


OPERA-L Archives

OPERA-L Archives


View:

Next Message | Previous Message
Next in Topic | Previous in Topic
Next by Same Author | Previous by Same Author
Chronologically | Most Recent First
Proportional Font | Monospaced Font

Options:

Join or Leave OPERA-L
Reply | Post New Message
Search Archives


Subject: Re: Why is everyone ignoring THIS?
From: Geoffrey Riggs <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Geoffrey Riggs <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Sat, 8 Dec 2018 12:07:42 -0500
Content-Type:text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
Parts/Attachments

text/plain (230 lines)


On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 14:49:38 -0500, Kiwi <[log in to unmask]> 
wrote:

>Not joining the debate on Turandot but really, there is a 
definitive source
>for how to pronounce Khashoggi--the family.
>
>The fact that people (like those on the news) offer a 
variety of
>pronunciation doesn't negate the fact there is a source 
that can readily be
>accessed.  Whose fault is it that these folks don't go to 
the source and
>become informed and accurate?
>
>I suspect (and again, not taking sides since I've heard 
Turandot pronounced
>both with and without the T) and not trying to prolong the 
discussion, but
>introducing a easily verifiable pronunciation of a current 
individual as
>proof that Puccini didn't know exactly how he wanted his 
heroine's name
>pronounced is a fairly specious argument.  We can ask 
the Khashoggi family
>in really time;  for Puccini, we can only go to near sources 
most likely to
>be in the know.
>
>And to link this back to Geoffrey's point, all he is saying is 
there are
>authentic sources from the Puccini era as to how the 
name should be
>pronounced.  I don't see the need to lambast someone 
who is simply
>requesting consideration based on historic evidence.
>
>You may chose to dismiss the historical evidence of 
Puccini's preference but
>that doesn't mean that evidence doesn't exist.  It would 
be interesting to
>trace the evolution of the pronunciation over the decades 
to determine when
>the T was added--and even the reason.  Perhaps it is 
nothing more than the
>adaption of the word to the normal rules of Italian that 
several have
>pointed out.  Perhaps it was nothing more than folks 
thought the word
>sounded better with the T.
>
>Not that any of us on this list are going to make one whit 
of difference on
>how the word is going to be sung in theaters around the 
world--but
>information and fact are not our enemies.  Embrace it.
_____________

[GR] THANK YOU!  To quote Robert Merrill, 
"Finalmeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeenteeeee!"

Let me say, I was always aware that some here, like Idia 
Legray, understand that it was the composer's preference 
to leave the T silent. Sorry if I left an alternate impression.

Rather, what drove my annoyance all along was the 
evasiveness of many posters respecting the original 
_performance_ _history_.  It conveys an attitude as if 
those performers were scurvy knaves only, and that left 
me seeing red. Your posting handsomely redresses that, 
as have a few others in the last 24 hours.

Also to others here, my favorite set too is the 
Nilsson/Corelli. They are clearly the most effective extant 
partnership in this piece, in my view.  So hearing the T 
sung is not a dealkiller for me. What IS a dealkiller for me 
is not really ignorance, but a peculiar brand of arrogance 
that relegates a once-known testimony from a creative 
artist like Raisa or Toscanini to an implied "well, what did 
they know?"

I appreciate the at-least acknowledgement of the 
pertinence of such testimony, in the last 24 hours.

Cheers,

Geoffrey Riggs

http://www.operacast.com
_______________________


>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: A Katalin Mitchell
>Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 1:17 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Why is everyone ignoring THIS?
>
>Oh finally someone comments on the fact that nobody 
seems to make up their
>minds about how to pronounce Khashoggi...
>It is  too funny!!!
>
>And please enough of that TTTTT!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>´╗┐On 12/7/18, 11:59 AM, "Discussion of opera and 
related issues on behalf of
>Bob Rideout" <[log in to unmask] on 
behalf of [log in to unmask]>
>wrote:
>
>    Geoffrey
>
>    Methinks you've really taken leave of your senses.
>
>    Yes, Raisa's comments are relevant. But, I don't really 
care.
>    The recordings I own all sound to me as though the 
final T is
>    pronounced. But, one mo' time, I don't really care.
>
>    And while we're at it, and getting crazy over absolutely 
nothing -
>    why can't newscasters get the pronunciation of 
Khashoggi right.
>    They are almost evenly split between "gee" and "ghi". 
Geoff,
>    I find that much more important than the T in Turandot, 
and the
>    denial of facts in that case worth a hell of a lot more 
outrage.
>    You're wasting an awful lot of energy about something 
that
>    is relatively no more important than "how many angels 
can dance
>    on the head of a pin.
>
>    Just my opinion!
>
>    Bob
>
>    On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 11:16:07 -0500, Geoffrey Riggs 
<[log in to unmask]>
>wrote:
>
>    >On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 07:23:03 -0500, Idia Legray
>    ><[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>    >
>    >>Did ja ever hear the song "You say tomayto,  I say
>    >tomahto, you say
>    >>potayto, I say potahto, tomayto, potayto, tomahto,
>    >potahto ...
>    >>LET'S CALL THE WHOLE THING OFF!
>    >>
>    >>Bottom line: With so many nutty things going on 
(thanks
>    >to a certain
>    >>nutcase) in our sadly divisive world today, what is so
>    >terrible about
>    >>allowing each to choose his/her own way of saying 
it and
>    >just let it be?
>    >>
>    >>Season's best to you.
>    >____________________
>    >
>    >[GR] Thing is, a la-di-da declaration that the creator of 
a
>    >title role is not a good witness(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) while 
offering
>    >no explanation for that absurd conclusion is 
symptomatic
>    >of this nutcase world: So facts are no longer facts 
and we
>    >can cancel any facts our lordships don't like purely by 
not
>    >even addressing them. That Orwellian-think has now
>    >permeated musical "scholarship" on this board. It's
>    >NAUSEATING.
>    >
>    >W-H-Y ARE THE CREATOR OF THE TITLE ROLE AND
>    >OTHER MEMBERS OF THE PREMIERE CAST 
SUDDENLY
>    >NOT RELEVANT WITNESSES TO THE ORIGINAL 
PIECE?
>    >WILL NO ONE ON THE BOARD EVEN LOOK AT THIS
>    >QUESTION, LET ALONE ADDRESS IT?
>    >
>    >What the hell is this Orwellian board so afraid of?
>    >
>    >Geoffrey Riggs
>
>
>**********************************************
>OPERA-L on Facebook:
>http://www.facebook.com/groups/25703098721/
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message to 
[log in to unmask]
>containing only the words:  SIGNOFF OPERA-L
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To stay subscribed but TURN OFF mail, send a message 
to
>[log in to unmask] containing only the words:  
SET OPERA-L NOMAIL
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Modify your settings: 
http://listserv.bccls.org/archives/opera-l.html
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------

**********************************************
OPERA-L on Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/groups/25703098721/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message to [log in to unmask]
containing only the words:  SIGNOFF OPERA-L
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
To stay subscribed but TURN OFF mail, send a message to
[log in to unmask] containing only the words:  SET OPERA-L NOMAIL
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Modify your settings: http://listserv.bccls.org/archives/opera-l.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to: Top of Message | Previous Page | Main OPERA-L Page

Permalink



LISTSERV.BCCLS.ORG

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager