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Subject: Re: Turandot pronunciation summation - case closed
From: Olga Bourlin <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Olga Bourlin <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Wed, 5 Dec 2018 11:40:08 -0800
Content-Type:text/plain
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text/plain (228 lines)


Past general director of Seattle Opera, Speight Jenkins, says it's TurandoT
... :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iFRsrOdTkI

On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 10:30 AM Paul Ricchi <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Impossible to sing the “dot” syllable? Pure crap!
>
>
> Not impossible for any Dot-tor’ Bartolo I have heard try to explain the
> pronunciation of his name to his home invader.
>
>
> Nor for any Violetta clinging to hope! “Ma il dottore a sperar pure
> m'esorta”
>
>
> I could go on....
>
>
> We can probably be sure “TurandoT” was not Gozzi’s attempt to Frenchify his
> heroine.
>
>
> “Turandotte” being a frequent spelling in the urtext is a concrete sign of
> how it was to be pronounced.
>
>
> Let’s not use singers as standards for pronounciation. For many of them it
> is more about production, convenience, breath and ease. That is why we have
> Milanov’s “fuggiam, fuggiam, foo-hah
>
> !” In the Nile scene.
>
>
> Raisa is not the best nor last word on this.
>
>
> I will concede that the final consonant in TurandoT tends to disappear when
> it is from the mouth of certain singers. )It is a native language thing.)
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 12:26 PM Jason Victor Serinus <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Since I started this thread, it seems appropriate that I al
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Since I started this thread, it seems appropriate that I also end it. Or,
> > at least, attempt to end it.
> >
> > Below I paste in what I feel to be conclusive evidence that Puccini
> wanted
> > the name pronounced "Turan-doh" or some variation thereof - whatever
> sounds
> > authentically Italian that does not have a hard "T" at the end.
> >
> > 1. One of several interviews Rosa Raisa, the first Turandot, gave on the
> > subject:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9W7vnCAYQ8
> >
> > 2. 1997 Opera Quarterly article summation by music critic and Sills
> > website maintainer Roy Dicks:
> > From:    Roy Dicks <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: Turandot pronunciation
> >
> > The last time the question about the pronunciation of "Turandot" came up
> =
> > on Opera-L
> > in 2004, several of us posted information taken from the exhaustive =
> > article about it in a=20
> > 1997 Opera Quarterly. I'm re-posting my summary of that article that I =
> > posted in 2004:
> >
> > I am posting the
> > pertinent points and facts from the Opera Quarterly article by
> > Patrick Vincent Casali, "The Pronunciation of Turandot: Puccini's
> > Last Enigma" (Vol. 13, No. 4, Summer 1997, p.77-91). I am writing
> > this with the article in hand and will do my best to summarize its
> > impressive research on the problem.
> >
> > Casali's overall conclusion is that the last "t" was originally meant
> > to be silent but that recordings and performance practice from the
> > mid-1950's led to a general tendency to sound the final "t." Here's
> > how he came to that conclusion:
> >
> > I. Recordings -
> > The first recorded excerpts were two different sections of the Ping,
> > Pang, Pong trio made soon after the premiere with the original
> > creators of the roles. The singers, who were tutored by Toscanini in
> > the roles, do NOT sing the final "t." Two recently issued  Riddle
> > Scenes from live 1937 Covent Garden performances with Eva Turner (one
> > of the first Turandots) and Giovanni Martinelli clearly do not use
> > the final "t."  The first complete recording of the opera was in 1938
> > by Parlophone with Cigna, Merli, Olivero, conducted by Franco Ghione.
> > Again no one sings a final "t." There were no more complete
> > recordings until the early 1950's when three sets came out: 1)
> > Grob-Prandl with La Fenice forces led by Capuana (Remington); 2)
> > Borkh, Del Monaco, Tebaldi, conducted by Erede (Decca); 3) Callas,
> > Fernandi, Schwarzkopf, conducted by Serafin (EMI). NONE of these
> > employ the final "t." Casali deems it quite significant that these
> > four complete sets are all led by Italian conductors with many
> > Italian singers who presumably were influenced by the tradition set
> > by the original production.
> >
> > The first recording to sound the final "t" was the 1959 RCA
> > Nilsson/Bjoerling/Tebaldi set. Casali speculates that Leinsdorf may
> > have made the case for a sounded "t," possibly based on contemporary
> > German, Swiss and Austrain practice.  Virtually all the  succeeding
> > complete recordings sounded the "t" (although Casali cites live
> > performances during the 1960's and one from 1972 which did not. The
> > Metropolitan Opera broadcasts of its new production in 1961 and 1962
> > both employed the final "t," firmly establishing the practice.
> >
> > II. Verbal Evidence =46rom Originators
> >
> > The first Turandot, Rosa Raisa unfortunately did not record anything
> > from the opera. Raisa did, however, speak to the matter of
> > pronunciation in an intermission interview from the 1962 Metropolitan
> > Opera broadcast. She corrected interviewer John Gutman, who sounded
> > the "t," by stating that the last "t" was not pronounced by Puccini
> > or Toscanini. Eva Turner, who was at the La Scala premiere and
> > shortly thereafter sang the role in Brescia and other houses, was
> > interviewed during a 1987 Covent Garden broadcast of Turandot, in
> > which she stated that it was pronounced without the "t" at the
> > premiere under Toscanini, therefore whenever she sang the role, she
> > followed suit. She also stated that it would break up the musical
> > line too much to sound the "t."
> >
> > III. Languages
> >
> > The origin of the opera's story is from the Italian playwright Carlo
> > Gozzi's "Turandotte," a French spelling that demands a final "t"
> > sound. Speculation is that Gozzi got his story from either from a
> > French translation of Persian tales called "Le cabinet des f=E9es" or
> > from a French translation of The Arabian Nights." Although in
> > Italian, the name Turandot also would have the final "t" sounded,
> > Puccini did change it from the original Turandotte. Casali speculates
> > that Puccini could have done it so that the name would  be pronounced
> > in the French way with no final "t." He speculates further that
> > Puccini would have been aware that requiring singers, especially the
> > tenor and the chorus, to sing the name on very high held notes would
> > be difficult and that the final "t" would generally break up the
> > musical line too often, as Turner noted.
> >
> > For whatever the reason, it seems to Casali that the evidence of the
> > early recordings and of those singers who were in or at the premiere
> > proves that certainly Toscanini and probably Puccini wanted the final
> > "t" silent for musical reasons.
> >
> > Thus, Casali makes a fairly unassailable case that, for whatever the
> > reasons, the creators and subsequent performers did not use the final
> > "t" for three decades after the premiere, and, for whatever the
> > reasons, the tradition changed mid-century to sounding the "t" but
> > with continual exceptions by individual singers and productions.
> >
> > Therefore, this seems to be a case (pace G & S) of " And I am right
> > and you are right, and all is right..."
> >
> > Roy D.
> >
> >
> > 3. The report from Stefan Zucker:
> > From:    Stefan Zucker <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: Turandot pronunciation
> >
> > I discussed the matter with Iris Adami Corradetti, Cigna and Olivero. =
> > None pronounced the "t." In conversation Corelli didn't pronounce it, as
> =
> > you can hear on recordings of our broadcasts, and as I recall he doesn't
> =
> > pronounce it on the RAI 1958 broadcast.
> >
> > Stefan=20=
> >
> > --
> > Nonetheless, opera companies and conductors seem to hold steadfast to the
> > pronunciation "Turan-dot." Until that changes, at least we know what
> > Puccini himself expected to hear, had he lived to hear it.
> >
> > jason victor serinus
> >
> > **********************************************
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