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Subject: Re: Why is everyone ignoring THIS?
From: Kiwi <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Kiwi <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Fri, 7 Dec 2018 14:49:38 -0500
Content-Type:text/plain
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text/plain (131 lines)


Not joining the debate on Turandot but really, there is a definitive source 
for how to pronounce Khashoggi--the family.

The fact that people (like those on the news) offer a variety of 
pronunciation doesn't negate the fact there is a source that can readily be 
accessed.  Whose fault is it that these folks don't go to the source and 
become informed and accurate?

I suspect (and again, not taking sides since I've heard Turandot pronounced 
both with and without the T) and not trying to prolong the discussion, but 
introducing a easily verifiable pronunciation of a current individual as 
proof that Puccini didn't know exactly how he wanted his heroine's name 
pronounced is a fairly specious argument.  We can ask the Khashoggi family 
in really time;  for Puccini, we can only go to near sources most likely to 
be in the know.

And to link this back to Geoffrey's point, all he is saying is there are 
authentic sources from the Puccini era as to how the name should be 
pronounced.  I don't see the need to lambast someone who is simply 
requesting consideration based on historic evidence.

You may chose to dismiss the historical evidence of Puccini's preference but 
that doesn't mean that evidence doesn't exist.  It would be interesting to 
trace the evolution of the pronunciation over the decades to determine when 
the T was added--and even the reason.  Perhaps it is nothing more than the 
adaption of the word to the normal rules of Italian that several have 
pointed out.  Perhaps it was nothing more than folks thought the word 
sounded better with the T.

Not that any of us on this list are going to make one whit of difference on 
how the word is going to be sung in theaters around the world--but 
information and fact are not our enemies.  Embrace it.



-----Original Message----- 
From: A Katalin Mitchell
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2018 1:17 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Why is everyone ignoring THIS?

Oh finally someone comments on the fact that nobody seems to make up their 
minds about how to pronounce Khashoggi...
It is  too funny!!!

And please enough of that TTTTT!






´╗┐On 12/7/18, 11:59 AM, "Discussion of opera and related issues on behalf of 
Bob Rideout" <[log in to unmask] on behalf of [log in to unmask]> 
wrote:

    Geoffrey

    Methinks you've really taken leave of your senses.

    Yes, Raisa's comments are relevant. But, I don't really care.
    The recordings I own all sound to me as though the final T is
    pronounced. But, one mo' time, I don't really care.

    And while we're at it, and getting crazy over absolutely nothing -
    why can't newscasters get the pronunciation of Khashoggi right.
    They are almost evenly split between "gee" and "ghi". Geoff,
    I find that much more important than the T in Turandot, and the
    denial of facts in that case worth a hell of a lot more outrage.
    You're wasting an awful lot of energy about something that
    is relatively no more important than "how many angels can dance
    on the head of a pin.

    Just my opinion!

    Bob

    On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 11:16:07 -0500, Geoffrey Riggs <[log in to unmask]> 
wrote:

    >On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 07:23:03 -0500, Idia Legray
    ><[log in to unmask]> wrote:
    >
    >>Did ja ever hear the song "You say tomayto,  I say
    >tomahto, you say
    >>potayto, I say potahto, tomayto, potayto, tomahto,
    >potahto ...
    >>LET'S CALL THE WHOLE THING OFF!
    >>
    >>Bottom line: With so many nutty things going on (thanks
    >to a certain
    >>nutcase) in our sadly divisive world today, what is so
    >terrible about
    >>allowing each to choose his/her own way of saying it and
    >just let it be?
    >>
    >>Season's best to you.
    >____________________
    >
    >[GR] Thing is, a la-di-da declaration that the creator of a
    >title role is not a good witness(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) while offering
    >no explanation for that absurd conclusion is symptomatic
    >of this nutcase world: So facts are no longer facts and we
    >can cancel any facts our lordships don't like purely by not
    >even addressing them. That Orwellian-think has now
    >permeated musical "scholarship" on this board. It's
    >NAUSEATING.
    >
    >W-H-Y ARE THE CREATOR OF THE TITLE ROLE AND
    >OTHER MEMBERS OF THE PREMIERE CAST SUDDENLY
    >NOT RELEVANT WITNESSES TO THE ORIGINAL PIECE?
    >WILL NO ONE ON THE BOARD EVEN LOOK AT THIS
    >QUESTION, LET ALONE ADDRESS IT?
    >
    >What the hell is this Orwellian board so afraid of?
    >
    >Geoffrey Riggs
 

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