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Subject: Re: Turandot
From: Geoffrey Riggs <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Geoffrey Riggs <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Thu, 6 Dec 2018 12:41:57 -0500
Content-Type:text/plain
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On Thu, 6 Dec 2018 12:20:52 +0000, tenoringa 
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I seem to remember a mention from Harvey Sachs, 
either parenthetically in his book on Toscanini (I searched 
for the mention) or in a interview I heard with him, that 
Puccini pronounced the opera's name without the final "t", 
and he noted that in the conversations with Toscanini 
recorded by his son there was no final "t" when he 
mentioned the opera. I found that very surprising as I've 
always pronounced the "t", given rules of Italian 
pronunciation. If someone could find that quote it might 
clear things up. However, I don't think it matters ALL that 
much and I'll keep pronouncing the "t" regardless, 
preferring to live in blissful willful ignorance.
_________________

[Geoffrey] Fine, you do that.  The rest of us can join you, 
once we hear a tenor sing Puccini's soaring phrase, 
"MAAAA - NOOOOON LescauTTTT mi chiamo".  After all, 
that opera's also in Italian, isn't it?  Obviously, tenors -- and 
sopranos, for that matter -- have been doing the phrase 
wrong all these years.  Poor ignorant Caruso (in 1913, I 
believe?). PuhLEEZE let's not bother with the original 
Manon story, oh my no.  Let's see, who was its author? Oh, 
never mind the author.  This is Puccini's Manon 
LescauTTTT, and it's in Italian, mister.  So get with the 
program.

And while we're at it, what's all this I hear about always 
having thought well "di voi, Jack Rance" at the end of Act 
2?  Wrong.  It's in Italian. From now on, all Minnies shall 
sing "di voi, Yahck Rahn - Che".  Thus do I decree.

Naturally, I'm not surprised that no one here has bothered 
to come forward with a direct argument as to WHY we 
should summarily dismiss all the combined testimony 
from the world premiere of TOOR AHN DOE. Even the 
poster who opined that Raisa was not, in effect, the best 
witness(!!!!!!!!!!!) has still declined to tell us WHY -- oh sage 
-- you have just DECIDED that's the case, pray tell, in your 
infinite wisdom.  WHY can we just IGNORE Turandot's 
bloody CREATOR, pray tell?

So how come no one here is providing us that WHY?  
Maybe it's because -- in 2018 -- we no longer address 
historical research honestly.  It's not the done thing. And 
we'd be put out of countenance, wouldn't we, if we 
bothered to even assent to the proposition there is any 
such thing as a worthwhile witness before 2017. All that is 
before 2017 mussen sie be trashed for the greater glory of 
the ignorant, who should be PROUD of their ignorance.  
Right?

2018 is the year when rewriting history is the IN thing, the 
COOL thing.  So to hell with whatever it is that musty 
interviews and recordings show.  Right?  That's the past.  
Give me NOW.  BURN all books and records.  Give me 
Manon LescauT mi chiama.

I think I'm going to be sick.

Geoffrey Riggs
____________________

>
>    On Wednesday, December 5, 2018, 11:47:39 PM EST, 
Les Mitnick <[log in to unmask]> wrote:  
> 
> While on the Turandot subject, I'm just asking:  how did 
the legendary mezzo soprano Pauline Viardot pronounce 
HER name?????????????
>> On December 5, 2018 at 10:45 PM Michael Hetsko 
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I’ve always pronounced it with the “doe”.  I 
think I’ll keep it. 
>> 
>> 
>> ~Mike Hetsko
>> 
>> 
>> > On Dec 5, 2018, at 11:17 PM, Geoffrey Riggs 
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> > 
>> >> On Wed, 5 Dec 2018 22:52:03 -0500, R PRADA 
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> I remember I knew a woman who was writing an 
article about the opera for
>> > Opera News and came out with a final judgement that 
the final T gets
>> > pronounced. I was a newbie and had never heard the 
opera but I do remember
>> > her research, or more precisely the energy behind it.
>> > 
>> > ============
>> > 
>> > [Geoffrey Riggs] With respect, energy is all I see 
among the denialists who
>> > pretend that Raisa et all are non-persons.  Unless 
this woman you reference
>> > happened to come up with DIRECT and COGENT 
reasons addressing DIRECTLY just
>> > how come the original Turandot AND Ping AND Pang 
AND Pong AND conductor
>> > could all be coincidentally uniformly wrong(!) on this 
question, any
>> > "declaration" that the T gets pronounced is just 
wishful thinking.
>> > 
>> > Seriously,
>> > 
>> > Geoffrey Riggs
>> > 
>> > ===============
>> > 
>> >> RP
>> >> 
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >> 
>> >>> On Dec 5, 2018, at 9:22 PM, OPERA-L automatic 
digest system
>> > <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> >>> 
>> >>> The opera, however, is in Italian in which you do say 
the final t.
>> >> 
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