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Subject: Re: 2008 film of la boheme - question
From: donald kane <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:donald kane <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Thu, 9 Aug 2018 08:55:11 -0400
Content-Type:text/plain
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text/plain (283 lines)


It seems to me that the contingencies of operatic performance erect such
barriers to perfection, it is a wonder that any composer who is not Wagner
may be expected to achieve it.  My advice is that they write symphonies
instead and, like Beethoven, Tschaikowsky, Brahms, Sibelius, and Elgar,
all of them, whether they number nine six four seven or two, indisputably,
in my opinion, qualify.

dtmk

On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 10:46 PM, Jon Goldberg <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> What's fascinating, Mr. Frey, with absolutely all due respect (though I
> suppose that's only
> MY opinion??) - if you look closely at the language in my "offending"
> post, it contains " I
> could," "I do think," "I suppose," and other language that denotes OPINION.
>
> Let's contrast that with your response, which reads very much like a
> decree (in my
> opinion). And you don't need me to tell you that.
>
> It is my opinion that you're jumping on me with impulsive decrees, for
> absolutely no
> reason, and it is my opinion that you should read more carefully and with
> perhaps just a
> slight bit of sense of humor, if you have one (my opinion is that I don't
> see one).
>
> As Giorgio opines to Riccardo, "Il rival salvar tu dei." Which
> colloquially, in context, could
> translate to "you gotta get over yourself already." My opinion as well.
>
> And this is exactly why I believe (opinion - see what I did there?) that
> discussing
> "perfect" operas is a very bad idea. Because people get so operatically
> overwrought when
> someone else's opinion (yes, opinion) gets in the way of theirs. We just
> can't have nice
> things, can we?
>
> :-) - (see that - it's a smiley. Just as in my previous post.)
>
> Have a good night, sir.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, 8 Aug 2018 19:09:18 -0400, Tom Frey <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> >What we deal with here, are opinions and opinions only. Not decrees. If
> someone feels
> that  an opera that I find "perfect", is not perfect, that is their
> opinion and not dogma.
> Some people love licorice and others can"t stand it. So don't try to eat
> it and you don't
> need me to tell you that
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Jon Goldberg <[log in to unmask]>
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Sent: Wed, 08 Aug 2018 17:44:42 -0400 (EDT)
> >Subject: Re: 2008 film of la boheme - question
> >
> >But this is where Mr. Kane has a really important point on "perfect" vs.
> "favorite," Much
> as
> >I love the score to Puritani, I could never consider it anywhere close to
> a perfect opera,
> >because *dramatically* it not only makes very little sense, but it's so
> very dramatically
> >inert. But it's glorious music, yes. (And very difficult music to sing,
> which thrills us even
> >more when it's sung well.) Which, I suppose could make it a candidate for
> a "perfect"
> >concert piece. ;-)
> >
> >The other operas Mr. Frey mentions, "perfect" or not, have plenty to
> offer both in terms
> of
> >music AND drama. I do think that any candidate for a "perfect" opera
> needs a lot of
> both.
> >
> >
> >
> >On Wed, 8 Aug 2018 16:44:22 -0400, Tom Frey <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> >>My list of perfect operas begins with: Magic Flute, Masked Ball, I
> Puritani, Ariadne auf
> >Naxos, and La Boheme. There are many others that one could add. Although
> I've sung
> in
> >the chorus at Parsifal, Lohengrin and Tristan and appreciate the grandeur
> of Wagner, I
> am
> >drawn mostly to Bel Canto
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: donald kane <[log in to unmask]>
> >>To: [log in to unmask]
> >>Sent: Wed, 08 Aug 2018 13:21:23 -0400 (EDT)
> >>Subject: Re: 2008 film of la boheme - question
> >>
> >>I think this sets the bar too high; there are dozens of operas as
> >>good as those two, and some, by Verdi himself, are going to be
> >>considered superior by many people:  DON CARLO, AIDA, LA
> >>TRAVIATA, or LA FORZA DEL DESTINO, for example..  It is
> >>my opinion that ANDREA CHENIER is as "perfect" as an opera
> >>can be, and that it is almost impossible to single out just one or
> >>two out of the twenty masterpieces by Wagner and Puccini. The
> >>whole thing becomes yet another list of  "favorites"
> >>
> >>dtmk
> >>
> >>On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 1:03 AM, Isaac Alan <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I am right with you, but for me, Rigoletto and Otello would also be
> >>> included
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: Discussion of opera and related issues <
> [log in to unmask]>
> >>> on behalf of James Bodge <[log in to unmask]>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2018 9:25:56 PM
> >>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>> Subject: Re: 2008 film of la boheme - question
> >>>
> >>> On 8/7/2018 4:27 PM, Bob Rideout wrote:
> >>> > I'm with you 100%.  There are three, arguably four, operas whose
> >>> > every note and every word approach perfection - Boheme, Nozze di
> >>> > Figaro and Falstaff. The fourth is Meistrsinger, though when
> performed
> >>> > complete, especially David's role, I find unnecessary, to put it
> nicely.
> >>> >
> >>> > In any case, those two notes strike me as a perfect accent within a
> >>> > perfect act, within a pretty perect opera. I cannot imagine why
> anyone
> >>> > woukd omit that moment.
> >>> >
> >>> > But then, I'm sure there are those who can't get enough of David in
> >>> > Meistersinger. ;-)
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>> And Jim Bodge replied"You betcha!!  Wouldn't cut David one bit.  As for
> >>>   perfect operas, your list is almost perfection.  Just add TRISTAN.
> >>>
> >>> Jim Bodge
> >>>
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