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Subject: Re: Since I see Tebaldi Yet Again Here...
From: "Takis Pavl." <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Takis Pavl.
Date:Mon, 9 Jul 2018 14:14:05 +0000
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 How "clever" of you to link me to Walter, a person you and your pack have been bullying for years, often not because he happens to love Tebaldi as much as you love Callas, but because of his English! I'd love to know your fluency in other languages. And since you've established the link with the person they love to bully, you imply to your followers that I'm worse than him. Go get him boys, this one is worse than Walter! 

Back to the two ladies, see how you evaluate a career as great as Tebaldi's: "She was what she was, much better before 1960 than after, and often magnificent in her prime." 
This is also true about Callas, yet you've never made a similar statement about her even though you admit she experienced increasing problems after 1955. In fact, I find such a statement patronising to say the least, towards two artists who in their prime, defined great operatic singing and what it meant to be one of the greatest stars in opera. 
 
From the Callas groupies all we hear is that the flaws didn't matter, a bad night was due to a cold, the hole in the middle was in fact a conscious vocal colour and so on. I believe you only heard her live in those late Toscas, correct? If that's right, you heard her in bad shape, yet again you excuse her flaws and rave about that night. And it's absolutely fine, but allow Tebaldi, despite HER flaws, to be equally great. I wonder if you'd feel the same about Callas if you had to endure those late flaws for many years.
Takis





   On Monday, 9 July 2018, 01:47:51 EEST, Bob Rideout <[log in to unmask]> wrote:  
 
 Takis

The major problem with your screed is that

A. Everyone I have read on this forum has given Tebaldi her due, and no one
on this forum has dismissed her. She was what she was, much better before 
1960 than after, and often magnificent in her prime.

and 

B. I know no Callas admirer on this forum who has not been very forthright
in recognizing her flaws. I, for example, have written often about her problems
after 1955, along with the great evenings, Dallas Medea, London Traviata 
and....especially her recordings, which often expose a technique that became
an embarrassment. They have been fully exposed by me and others for many
years. Read a recent post by me about Juliette and Titania!

I am reminded of the first confrontation you and I ever had. You asked if any
of Tebaldi's detractors had actually seen her live. I responded that I had seen 
her many times in about a dozen roles, and that in only one had she been
totally successful, Butterfly in January of 1961.

Your response, paraphrased, but very close - He's only saying this to brag 
about seeing her. It took my breath away at the time, but I have since come
to realize that that is who you are!  You no longer take my breath away; you
make me want to vomit!

At least Walter is, however obsessed, basically honest. 

Bob

On Sun, 8 Jul 2018 22:04:12 +0000, Takis Pavl. <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> The problem with Tebaldi's detractors on this list that they seem to only hear HER 
intonation problems, HER bad nights, and never Callas'. That makes those people lose 
credibility and Callas' flaws become even more apparent because you're trying to hide them. 
A bad Callas night is always because of a cold, an infection, flu, nerves, exhaustion, an 
argument with Onassis or what have you. Don't other singers experience such problems? 
Didn't Tebaldi? 
>
>How can anyone complain about the few intonation problems in what is otherwise a 
magnificent broadcast of Leonora's music in Forza del Destino at the MET in 1960 and hear 
no flaws, no intonation problems, no cracks, no wobble in all of Callas' MET performances? 
If you defend Callas' last MET Toscas but complain about Tebaldi's Leonora, how can you 
expect anyone to think you're at least trying to be objective when reviewing Tebaldi's MET 
career?  
>
>Takis
>
>
>  
> 
>
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