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Subject: Re: the real final night at the old Met 1966
From: Kersasp Shekhdar <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Kersasp Shekhdar <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Wed, 13 Jun 2018 00:27:14 +0500
Content-Type:text/plain
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This story (at least to my mind) is a real world analogy of 1 Kings 3:16–28 and Brecht's Augusburg/Caucasian Chalk Circle, with the old opera house – even NYC opera itself – as the child.



Moral of the story: Unlike legend, lore, and literature, in the real world the false mother almost always 'wins.'




---- On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 20:19:55 +0500 Michael McPherson &lt;[log in to unmask]&gt; wrote ----




Alain, 



Many thanks for these links. Fascinating. 



Michael 



Michael J. McPherson 

[log in to unmask] 









&gt; On Jun 12, 2018, at 11:13 AM, Alain Letort &lt;[log in to unmask]&gt; wrote: 

&gt; 

&gt; Dear Listers, 

&gt; 

&gt; I don’t know why this controversy even started in the first place, as there are *numerous* 

&gt; photos of the Old Met available on the Web. 

&gt; 

&gt; This large color photograph clearly shows the pillars (or columns, posts, supports, uprights, 

&gt; balusters, piers, piles, pilasters) that “graced” the Old Met and interfered with a substantial 

&gt; number of viewers’ sightlines : 

&gt; 

&gt; http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/dc07297029641e44_large 

&gt; 

&gt; From what the photograph shows, the problem mainly affected the side and rear orchestra 

&gt; seats and the third and fourth balconies (I don’t know what they were called). Also, people 

&gt; seated in the side boxes (other than those seated in the first row of same) would have had 

&gt; a very obstructed view of the stage, a problem common to most traditional horse-shoe 

&gt; shaped houses, such as the Palais Garnier in Paris. 

&gt; 

&gt; It’s a shame that many of the decorative features of the Old Met, such as frescoes, 

&gt; paintings, gilded woodwork, etc, were not dismantled, preserved, and re-used in other 

&gt; theaters. 

&gt; 

&gt; A very interesting website details the history of the Old Met and the efforts of the 

&gt; Metropolitan Opera Association to thwart (successfully, as we know) any initiative aimed at 

&gt; preserving the old house, for fear of competition. The website is well documented and has 

&gt; many footnotes supporting all of its assertions. 

&gt; 

&gt; http://www.nypap.org/preservation-history/old-metropolitan-opera-house/ 

&gt; 

&gt; Cheers and all the best, 

&gt; 

&gt; Alain 

&gt; 

&gt; Alain Letort 

&gt; Washington, D.C. 

&gt; Des Ungeheuers Höhle 

&gt; 

&gt; 

&gt; 

&gt; 

&gt; 

&gt; ==================================================== 

&gt; On Mon, 11 Jun 2018 13:50:57 -0400, Bob Rideout &lt;[log in to unmask]&gt; wrote: 

&gt; 

&gt;&gt; Donald 

&gt;&gt; 

&gt;&gt; I do think that this has become a tempest in even less than a 

&gt;&gt; teapot, but, there certainly were pillars (or posts if you want) 

&gt;&gt; at least at the Dress Circle and Balcony levels. I was cautioned 

&gt;&gt; about them more than once at the box office. i sat behind them 

&gt;&gt; a couple of times and they were no great impediment. The thing 

&gt;&gt; is, they had a very small circumference, but they were there! 

&gt;&gt; 

&gt;&gt; Bob 

&gt;&gt; 

&gt;&gt; On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 13:34 donald kane &lt;[log in to unmask]&gt; wrote: 

&gt;&gt; 

&gt;&gt;&gt; I have never mentioned backstage facilities, but I will say that 

&gt;&gt;&gt; whatever their shortcomings, they didn't interfere with more than 

&gt;&gt;&gt; half a century's worth of magnificent performances. Nor did 

&gt;&gt;&gt; complaints begin to proliferate until it was decided that they 

&gt;&gt;&gt; might be a good way to help in instigating a move. 

&gt;&gt;&gt; 

&gt;&gt;&gt; No matter where I sat in the old place, I was never behind a post; 

&gt;&gt;&gt; it just doesn't work that way, and I have numerous clear 8x10 photos 

&gt;&gt;&gt; to prove it. The trouble with seats on the side of any theater, new or 

&gt;&gt;&gt; old, is that views of the stage are obstructed, partially or seriously, 

&gt;&gt;&gt; depending on how high up you go. That is why, after the remedy 

&gt;&gt;&gt; Richard Wagner demonstrated at Bayreith, no horseshoe theater 

&gt;&gt;&gt; should ever have been built again. 

&gt;&gt;&gt; 

&gt;&gt;&gt; dtmk 

&gt;&gt;&gt; 

&gt;&gt;&gt; On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Max D. Winter &lt;[log in to unmask]&gt; 

&gt;&gt;&gt; wrote: 

&gt;&gt;&gt; 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Donald Kane wrote: 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; "I defy you to produce a single photo showing "pillars" on every level. 

&gt;&gt;&gt; Do 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; you even know 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; what a pillar is?" 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Yes, in fact, I do, have for some time. From one dictionary: "A tall 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; vertical structure of 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stone, wood, or metal, used as a support for a building, or as an 

&gt;&gt;&gt; ornament 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; or monument. 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Synonyms: column, post, support, upright, baluster, pier, pile, pilaster, 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; stanchion, prop, 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; newel." I presume you are quibbling about my calling them "pillars" 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; rather than "posts" or 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; "columns." Now, if I had called them "caryatids," you might be able to 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; object, as none of 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the supports had ladies draped in togas. But "pillar" is a perfectly 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; acceptable descriptive 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; word for the uprights that supported the balconies of the Old Met. 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; As to your first point: the pillars/columns/posts/caryatids - call them 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; what you want, it's all 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the same thing (well, ok, not Caryatids, no women in togas) - can be seen 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in numerous 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; photos of the Old Met on Google Images. There is also a clear view of 

&gt;&gt;&gt; the 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; house with the 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; pillars on the Wikipedia page for "Old Met." That they were there and 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; partially obstructed 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the view from many seats was attested to in the recent documentary "The 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Opera House," by 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; none other than former House Manager Alfred Hubay, who should know. 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I really don't know why are you are even quibbling about this. Perhaps 

&gt;&gt;&gt; to 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; avoid dealing 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; with the physical impracticability, if not impossibility, of bringing the 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; backstage facilities of 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the Old Met up to an acceptable modern standard. 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; MDW 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 

&gt;&gt;&gt; 

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