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Subject: Re: Peter Grimes
From: donald kane <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:donald kane <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Fri, 2 Mar 2018 21:43:28 -0500
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Everything I've read since this topic was introduced, makes opera sound like
something I'd rather keep away from.  I like music.

dtmk

On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 9:33 PM, Jon Goldberg <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I think it's very easy to understand why the sexuality question comes up.
> And this also
> easily extends to other "outsider" characters in Britten's operas, such as
> Claggart,
> obviously Aschenbach, and even Albert Herring.
>
> And it also comes up with other male characters who have trouble
> connecting, a major
> example being Bobby in Sondheim and Furth's "Company." Certainly, people
> might say,
> the reason Bobby is so afraid to commit to marriage is that he's gay,
> right?
>
> And I'm always reluctant to go there - simply because it's just nowhere in
> the text. In the
> revised version of Company, Bobby does admit, in casual conversation, to
> having tried
> sex with men, but I find the line rather unconvincing in the scene's
> context (it always
> sounds more to me like he's saying it to sound "with it" in his changing
> society more than
> it necessarily being true) - and then he also rejects the advances of his
> friend who asked
> the question in the first place.
>
> It's perhaps easier to claim homosexual struggles in Claggart, but is it
> really him or just
> the way we want to project feelings on him? Surely Budd isn't the only one
> with
> "beauty/handsomeness" on the ship - and we don't get any other evidence
> that he's
> attracted to anyone else on the Indomitable. Is Herring just a naive
> mama's boy who
> hasn't found any trace of manhood in himself yet (even after the spiked
> lemonade lol), or
> is he just a bit envious of Nancy landing a stud like Sid, lol? We can put
> our own fantasies
> on all that, but I don't really see that in the text anywhere.
>
> Indeed, Britten may have been interested in the stories of these outsiders
> because he too
> saw the sexual implications - but I'd agree with Vickers that the pieces
> themselves go
> way way beyond that. I'd say that such subtext can be left up to us, to
> percieve if we
> want to. But I certainly don't want to see some regie Grimes where Peter
> is actively
> interested in the men - or, more to the point, in the young boys that lose
> their lives under
> his watch. We can always secretly wonder if that's an element of the
> story, but it's just
> not what the opera is "about" - at least for me.
>
>
>
> On Fri, 2 Mar 2018 18:03:49 -0800, Maxwell Paley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> >Someone brought up the issue of Grimes and homosexuality and asked if
> that wasn’t
> the real reason for his isolation from the rest of the borough. Vickers
> said “that may be
> what Ben (Britten) had in mind, but the work he and Monty (Slater)
> produced goes so far
> beyond that specific and lays out a universal truth of the human
> condition. Some people
> just can’t fit in. But everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt.” He
> didn’t deprecate gay
> people at all, but simply said there are many other reasons people can
> feel that kind of
> isolation.
>
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