LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 15.5

Help for OPERA-L Archives


OPERA-L Archives

OPERA-L Archives


View:

Next Message | Previous Message
Next in Topic | Previous in Topic
Next by Same Author | Previous by Same Author
Chronologically | Most Recent First
Proportional Font | Monospaced Font

Options:

Join or Leave OPERA-L
Reply | Post New Message
Search Archives


Subject: HOW TO RESPOND TO GCR - ANSWER DON'T (Formerly, Dialogues of the Carmelites)
From: RAYMOND GOUIN <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:RAYMOND GOUIN <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Thu, 22 Feb 2018 00:19:06 -0500
Content-Type:text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
Parts/Attachments

text/plain (234 lines)


IGNORE THE BASTARD !


https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/5-types-people-who-can-ruin-your-life/201802/are-you-target-blame-narcissist


Best.

Ray


***

> On February 21, 2018 at 11:20 PM Jon Goldberg wrote:
> 
> 
>     I tend to think that Mr. Perraud's reference to "snide condescension" was not about the
>     blogger, but the Opera-L poster who quoted the blogger.
> 
>     We all have likes and dislikes. But some people really love music. Others think that they
>     can show their superiority (phony and narcissistic as it is) by routinely cutting down the
>     music that other people love. That's more about unhealthy love of self than it is about
>     love for any music at all.
> 
> 
>     On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 14:07:00 -0500, donald kane wrote:
> 
>     >Read the full review on the blog called Capriccio, and you will see that
>     >the writer has a healthy admiration for Poulenc's music. His intention
>     >was to place an opinion of what the composer was trying to do with
>     >"DIALOGUES" in contrast to all his other less ambitious works. I think
>     >it's a thoughtful essay. Words like "snide condescesion" don't have
>     >much application to perceptive criticism: who wants to read only polite,
>     >impersonal ramblings carefully phrased to avoid accidental injury? I
>     >may not agree with every word but I'm thankful the essay was brought
>     >to our attention.
>     >
>     >dtmk
>     >
>     >
>     >On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 12:22 PM, Louis Perraud
>     >wrote:
>     >
>     >> Dear Mr. Padillo
>     >>
>     >> Thanks for your vigorous defense of M. Poulenc's wonderful opera. What
>     >> really irritated me about the post you were replying to was not the
>     >> writer's preference for other 20th century operas--that's a judgement that
>     >> goes with having an individual set of ears--nor his rejection of the
>     >> religious and political values that underlie the opera--those are
>     >> judgements he has every right to make. No, what bothered me was the post's
>     >> snide condescension, and assumption that the writer had an irrefutable
>     >> correct view that there is no room to disagree with.
>     >>
>     >> Louis Perraud
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> n--- "G. Paul Padillo" wrote: s
>     >> > "The music in Carmelites makes one almost suspect a confectionaryn
>     >> > misspelling -- sickly sweet and pleasurable in small quantities but
>     >> > actually of little nutritious value. There are a few scenes that stick
>     >> out
>     >> > but the lack of real musical invention makes it a dull overall listening
>     >> > experience." (Snip)
>     >> > ******
>     >> >
>     >> > This (along with nearly everything else in the post, attached to the
>     >> bottom,
>     >> > where it belongs) has to be among the most hilarious, yet still bilious
>     >> > statements of bullshit I’ve ever run across regarding what is widely, and
>     >> > correctly accepted as one of the masterpieces of the mid 20th century,
>     >> > bringing to mind the nonsense by some British critic citing “Nozze di
>     >> > Figaro� as an inflated, overrated, bore “people only pretend to like
>     >> because
>     >> > they’re supposed to,� proving no lack of idiocy in the world of
>     >> criticism and
>     >> > journalism.
>     >> >
>     >> > 15-20 years ago I had “dialogues� with a fellow lister who hated this
>     >> opera,
>     >> > stating how he “was enraged by “the passivity of the Sisters of Carmel�
>     >> > and their like “lambs-to-the-slaughter� idea of martyrdom, questioning
>     >> why
>     >> > a composer could possibly be drawn to this text. Poulenc should “have
>     >> > been ashamed to bring this before the public . . . At a time when the
>     >> > whole world was still reeling . . . how could Poulenc choose to set this
>     >> little
>     >> > antique tragedy about the Carmelite nuns of 1789."
>     >> >
>     >> > The beauty – and horror – of Poulenc’s opera, I believe, is how it
>     >> addresses
>     >> > universally many issues and, despite the specificity of it its setting,
>     >> is
>     >> > ultimately a story that could take, and has taken place at any given
>     >> time in
>     >> > any part of the world. In “Dialogues� Poulenc has given us one of the
>     >> few
>     >> > repertory pieces which, alongside Wagner’s “Parsifal� has caused many to
>     >> > profoundly examine one’s personal faith, whatever that faith may be.
>     >> >
>     >> >
>     >> > As to the irrational necessity felt to pit Poulenc’s opera with those
>     >> less
>     >> > frequently performed (“more esoteric,� if you will) operas by Janacek and
>     >> > Busoni is unnecessary and, ultimately, useless. The three composers had
>     >> > entirely different – and unique – styles that had/have nothing to do with
>     >> > each other aside from each man being at the top of his game and
>     >> > producing works of genius. A personal preference for another work does
>     >> > not diminish the artistic accomplishment of Monsieur Poulenc with his
>     >> > Dialogues.
>     >> >
>     >> > From the initial buzz at its La Scala premiere to continued productions
>     >> > round the world, ever since, Poulenc’s opera has lost nothing of the
>     >> power
>     >> > with which it came into this world. I have seen this work a number of
>     >> > times in a various productions and it continues to wring tears from these
>     >> > eyes while also, as the greatest art can, connect the mind to the heart.
>     >> >
>     >> > p.
>     >> >
>     >> >
>     >> > * * * * *
>     >> >
>     >> >
>     >> > Anon blogger wrote:
>     >> >
>     >> > >Poulenc's Dialogues des Carmelites doesn't at all convince. The
>     >> unlikeable
>     >> > tacky religious kitsch (not even likeable in a camp "good because it's
>     >> bad"
>     >> > way) of the situation and music as well as the poverty of the actual
>     >> > musical material makes for a long evening. Though the characters are
>     >> > strongly drawn, they are hard to relate to - what are we to make of the
>     >> > eliptical and abnormal reasoning of the minds of the devout, whose
>     >> attitude
>     >> > to life and death is so different from our own? Only Soeur Constance is
>     >> > really likeable, but because she's so explicitly normal and seems to lack
>     >> > the strangeness of the order's religious sentiments (until the ending
>     >> that
>     >> > is). The music in Carmelites makes one almost suspect a confectionary
>     >> > misspelling -- sickly sweet and pleasurable in small quantities but
>     >> > actually of little nutritious value. There are a few scenes that stick
>     >> out
>     >> > but the lack of real musical invention makes it a dull overall listening
>     >> > experience.
>     >> >
>     >> > http://capricciomusic.blogspot.com/2011/03/dialogues-des-carmelites.html
>     >> >
>     >> > ------------
>     >> >
>     >> > Agree that the music is, if not over-sweet, not always very nutritious
>     >> > (like Poulenc generally).
>     >> >
>     >> > (My understanding is that Poulenc was digging for the real France beneath
>     >> > the official lies, and finding Catholicism, aristocracy, the small
>     >> > community and self-sacrifice where others see only the regimented terror
>     >> of
>     >> > the modern state)
>     >> >
>     >> > Of course it is not at the artistic level of 'Mathis der Maler', 'Doktor
>     >> > Faust' or 'From The House of The Dead' (Z mrtvého domu)..... but look wh
>     >> > what
>     >> > has come out of France since then!
>     >> >
>     >> > **********************************************
>     >> > OPERA-L on Facebook:
>     >> > http://www.facebook.com/groups/25703098721/
>     >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>     >> --------------
>     >> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message to [log in to unmask] mailto:[log in to unmask] .org
>     >> > containing only the words: SIGNOFF OPERA-L
>     >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>     >> --------------
>     >> > To stay subscribed but TURN OFF mail, send a message to
>     >> > [log in to unmask] mailto:[log in to unmask] .org containing only the words: SET OPERA-L
>     >> NOMAIL
>     >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>     >> --------------
>     >> > Modify your settings: http://listserv.bccls.org/archives/opera-l.html
>     >> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>     >> --------------
>     >>
>     >> **********************************************
>     >> OPERA-L on Facebook:
>     >> http://www.facebook.com/groups/25703098721/
>     >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message to [log in to unmask] mailto:[log in to unmask] .org
>     >> containing only the words: SIGNOFF OPERA-L
>     >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     >> To stay subscribed but TURN OFF mail, send a message to
>     >> [log in to unmask] mailto:[log in to unmask] .org containing only the words: SET OPERA-L NOMAIL
>     >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     >> Modify your settings: http://listserv.bccls.org/archives/opera-l.html
>     >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     >>
>     >
>     >**********************************************
>     >OPERA-L on Facebook:
>     >http://www.facebook.com/groups/25703098721/
>     >--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     >To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message to [log in to unmask] mailto:[log in to unmask] .org
>     >containing only the words: SIGNOFF OPERA-L
>     >--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     >To stay subscribed but TURN OFF mail, send a message to
>     [log in to unmask]">>[log in to unmask] containing only the words: SET OPERA-L NOMAIL
>     >--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     >Modify your settings: http://listserv.bccls.org/archives/opera-l.html
>     >--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>     **********************************************
>     OPERA-L on Facebook:
>     http://www.facebook.com/groups/25703098721/<hr style="height: 0; border: 0; border-top: 1px solid #aaa; margin: 8px 0;">To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message to [log in to unmask] mailto:[log in to unmask] .org
>     containing only the words: SIGNOFF OPERA-L
>     ---------------------------------------------
>     To stay subscribed but TURN OFF mail, send a message to
>     [log in to unmask] mailto:[log in to unmask] .org containing only the words: SET OPERA-L NOMAIL
>     ---------------------------------------------
>     Modify your settings: http://listserv.bccls.org/archives/opera-l.html<hr style="height: 0; border: 0; border-top: 1px solid #aaa; margin: 8px 0;">
> 

**********************************************
OPERA-L on Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/groups/25703098721/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message to [log in to unmask]
containing only the words:  SIGNOFF OPERA-L
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
To stay subscribed but TURN OFF mail, send a message to
[log in to unmask] containing only the words:  SET OPERA-L NOMAIL
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Modify your settings: http://listserv.bccls.org/archives/opera-l.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to: Top of Message | Previous Page | Main OPERA-L Page

Permalink



LISTSERV.BCCLS.ORG

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager