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Subject: Re: 'The Mania For Inclusion'
From: David Shengold <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:David Shengold <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Thu, 8 Feb 2018 22:40:44 +0000

text/plain (55 lines)

Pandora, it was not you whom  I was addressing as smug.
But you do seem curiously unable to get my point, that we are talking about orchestras playing works by contemporary composers, male or female. Do you think that the composers I mentioned are not as worthy of being heard as the many, many contemporary male composers whose works do get programmed?

"The test of time" is a different issue. Time and culture have imposed various hurdles to that test. May I recommend Tillie Olsen's SILENCES (1976)?
-David Shengold

      From: Pandora Shaw <[log in to unmask]>
 To: David Shengold <[log in to unmask]>; Donald Kane <[log in to unmask]>; Discussion of Opera and Related Issues <[log in to unmask]> 
 Sent: Thursday, February 8, 2018 11:25 PM
 Subject: Re: 'The Mania For Inclusion'
Your point is obvious to anyone and I am neither smug nor unsubtle. But I do actually think the best compositions of Sibelius, Grieg, Tchaikovsky, et al, have stood the test of time and are vastly preferable to those of any of the female composers you mention. And I think most people would agree with me. I have never said, btw, that there are no works by women that are worthy of being programmed. But the original point made on this thread - that political correctness is a scourge in the arts (and everywhere!) - is a sound one.    

    On Thursday, February 8, 2018 4:10 PM, David Shengold <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

You run the risk of drowning in your own imperturbable smugness.
Invoking Beethoven is not to the point here. If contemporary orchestras are programming music by Sibelius or Respighi or Bernstein or Grieg--which they are-- they are programming composers lesser than Beethoven. News flash: Robert Schumann and Brahms and Tchaikovsky are lesser composers than Beethoven.

At issue here rather is whether major orchestras program ZERO contemporary works by worthwhile female composers such as Kaija Saariaho, Shulamit Ran, Missy Mazzoli, Jennifer Higdon or Sofia Gubaidilina ( to name but five)  when they are programming contemporary work by men ( which they are, **all the time**).
Does that introduce some shafts of light?

-David Shengold


Donald Kane:

Is it really so difficult to detect the presence of greatness in music?

As Claude Rains, portraying a fictional composer in the brilliant
Bette Davis film, DECEPTION, says: "try listening to it after Beethoven".



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