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Subject: Re: Favorite Ariadne recording?
From: Peggy Houdek <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Peggy Houdek <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Thu, 8 Feb 2018 09:45:15 -0500
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I like that one too. And that is the original, more difficult version, that Strauss revised. She does a great job and I think I remember an interview where she told how difficult it was and I think she decided then not to do it again. And I thought the revised version hard. yikes!

Peggy

(,,,)^..^(,,)

> On Feb 8, 2018, at 1:11 AM, rjcardinalli <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> For me, nothing will replace della Casa, and later Norman, in commercial recordings.   Among videos, I am also partial to the 1969 Boston concert performance under Leinsdorf with a very moving Claire Watson as Ariadne and a spectacular Beverly Sills as Zerbinetta.  We have too little of Watson available on disc or video and she was an exceptional artist.  
> 
> 
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
> -------- Original message --------From: Vesna Danilovic <[log in to unmask]> Date: 08/02/2018  03:53  (GMT+02:00) To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Favorite Ariadne recording? 
> Sorry, pressed send too quickly: Michael Kater is the author's name.
> 
>> On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 8:48 PM, Vesna Danilovic <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>> Discomfort comes from the lingering and haunting thought that at that very
>> same time when these performances were taking place, millions of innocent
>> souls were being exterminated in gas chambers with industrial efficiency.
>> It's not a statement about the musicians, but about these horrific
>> circumstances that were also a part of the reality. Of course, you are
>> correct about the musicians who stayed and worked there... they range from
>> those who actively collaborated with the regime to others who simply had
>> nowhere else to go and had to continue to work in their homeland. I highly
>> recommend Marek's THE TWISTED MUSE about the interesting and, from what I
>> could see, thoroughly documented history of many prominent composers and
>> performers of the time, and their very different life journeys through this
>> most troubling period in their countries (mostly Germany and Austria).
>> 
>> Vesna
>> 
>> P.S. I see that a little 'autocorrect ' gremlin crept into my post as
>> well, changing Seefried into Siegfried. Well, at least it has some operatic
>> knowledge!
>> 
>>> On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 8:17 PM, donald kane <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> What is it about a performance that took place in wartime
>>> Germany that makes anyone "uncomfortable"; are all the
>>> artists involved assumed to have been monsters because
>>> they didn't refuse to participate?   Wouldn't it be odd if they
>>> had NOT performed Strauss's music then, not to mention
>>> Beethoven and Wagner?
>>> 
>>> The Composer is my favorite soprano in  ARIADNE, and I wish
>>> Teresa  Stratas, who was still portraying her as splendidly in 1994
>>> at the Met, as she had done in 1967 in Munich, had been cast
>>> in one of the "official" recordings
>>> 
>>> dtmk.
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 7:27 PM, Vesna Danilovic <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Rich and list,
>>>> 
>>>> That 1944 live recording is a vintage ARIADNE that I wouldn't want to be
>>>> without (while also sharing with Rich some degree of discomfort given the
>>>> wartime circumstances). If you are open for more live recordings then the
>>>> 1954 Salzburg with Della Casa, Siegfried, Gueden, Schock, again under
>>>> Bohm
>>>> would be my second choice. (I'm thrilled to read Bob R.'s endorsement of
>>>> Della Casa's sublime Ariadne.) Among several good studio choices, I go
>>>> back
>>>> to Kempe who, of all conductors, carried Bohm's mantle most fittingly for
>>>> this opera, IMO. The cast is mostly good to excellent, led by Janowitz's
>>>> wonderful Ariadne. Kempe's conducting and ensemble is anything but
>>>> artificial and deliberate, which I'm afraid mars the recording with
>>>> Schwarzkopf and Karajan. (Though this is my favorite Strauss opera, there
>>>> are some studio recordings I haven't heard, including Leinsdorf).
>>>> 
>>>> On video, the Salzburg production from the 60s has Bohm in the pit, the
>>>> marvelous Jurinac as Composer, Reri Grist's superb Zerbinetta, ....
>>>> enough
>>>> golden singing and conducting to have this video despite a slightly
>>>> inferior Ariadne by comparison. I also very much enjoy the Met's
>>>> performance under Levine with a truly great cast (Jesse Norman, Troyanos,
>>>> Battle - wow!). I saw a couple of modern productions, including
>>>> Glyndebourne's disastrous directorial approach that totally sidetracked
>>>> from the Strauss-Hofmmanstahl conception, but they are easily
>>>> forgettable.
>>>> I'm also curious if there are any other video recommendations.
>>>> 
>>>> One recording I think is worth exploring is the one I actually haven't
>>>> yet
>>>> heard but is high up on my bucket list: the original version led by
>>>> Nagano
>>>> with Margaret Price's Ariadne, Sumi Jo's Zerbinetta, and Winbergh's
>>>> Bacchus. Besides the historical attraction to hear the opera's early
>>>> version, the cast also surely looks very promising.
>>>> 
>>>> Vesna
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 2:13 PM, Bradley Wilber <
>>>> [log in to unmask]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I'd be glad for people to include successful videos in this discussion
>>>> as
>>>>> well.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Brad
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Discussion of opera and related issues [mailto:
>>>>> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Donald Levine
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2018 2:03 PM
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Subject: Re: Favorite Ariadne recording?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am with Max regarding the Victor 1961 Ariadne auf Naxos.  As Max has
>>>>> said, the sound picture is gorgeous and for me, Leonie is a magnificent
>>>>> Ariadne - but as any of you who know me would know, Leonie can do no
>>>>> wrong.  I heard her in the house later and she remains my favorite.
>>>> Peters
>>>>> is wonderful - I never expected she had it in her but she did.  Peerce
>>>> is a
>>>>> fine Bacchus, personally I prefer King, but I'll take Peerce.  My
>>>>> preference for the Komponist has always been a soprano and Jurinac is
>>>> in a
>>>>> class of her own.  The rest of this performance is well cast and its
>>>> one of
>>>>> Leinsdorf's better efforts.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I also have a soft spot the 1944 Strauss birthday celebration from
>>>> Vienna
>>>>> with Bohm conducting the great Maria Reining, Alda Noni, Irmgard
>>>> Seefried,
>>>>> Max Lorenz and Paul Schoeffler.  From the Kempe set, there is the
>>>> luxurious
>>>>> gorgeous singing of  Gundula Janowitz, Teresa Zylis-Gara  and James
>>>> King.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It's an opera that has been well served on disc with many outstanding
>>>>> casts.  Also notable is the Kent Nagano recording of the original opera
>>>>> only with Margaret Price, Sumi Jo and Gosta Winbergh.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Donald
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 7, 2018 at 11:21 AM, Maxwell Paley <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I loved things like “Es gibt ein Reich” from the get-go, but it took
>>>>>> me some years to “get” “Ariadne auf Naxos” overall. Seeing a
>>>>>> performance with a bass-player friend around 20 years ago, she turned
>>>>>> to me at one point and said “This is really an opera with an inside
>>>>> story for musicians.”
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I agree that this was a Böhm specialty. Aside from the performances
>>>>>> you mention, I also really like the mid 50s Salzburg production with
>>>>>> Della Casa, Seefried and Gueden.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> My favorite overall recording is the Karajan. Did he ever conduct
>>>> this
>>>>>> on stage? I don’t think he did, as with “Cosi fan Tutte” but the
>>>>>> recordings are exquisite.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I also like the Leinsdorf that even today, pushing 60, has the best
>>>>>> recorded sound. Rysanek at that point was, to me, the operatic
>>>>>> equivalent of Kim Novak: a bit blowsy and unkempt but still gorgeous
>>>> and
>>>>> voluptuous.
>>>>>> Maybe it was my ignorance, but I found Peters a delightful surprise
>>>> as
>>>>>> Zerbinetta, not only vocally but also in terms of Strauss musical
>>>> style.
>>>>>> She sounds like she might have made a very fine Sophie. Peerce is a
>>>>>> really pleasant surprise as Bacchus. Jurinac is Jurinac.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Another one I really like is the EMI Kempe.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I’ve seen several really fine Composers, but on records I find
>>>>>> Seefried and Jurinac both bring extraordinary compelling qualities in
>>>>>> terms of the persona presented through the voice.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> An example of how important the orchestral sound is to an opera like
>>>>>> this is the Solti recording, in which the London Philharmonic that
>>>>>> sounds so good on Solti’s Mozart recordings, sounds so wrong. There
>>>>>> are other problems with this recording such as how unflattering the
>>>>>> microphone was to Leontyne Price at that point (she sounded much
>>>>>> better in the role live), but the framework constructed by the
>>>>>> orchestra sounds so inferior to the Vienna and Dresden orchestras, or
>>>>>> what Karajan was able to get from the Philharmonia.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The Böhm studio recording, with some significant soloists, is
>>>>>> disappointing. Hillebrecht sounds to me like all of Rysanek’s
>>>>>> weaknesses without her mitigating qualities.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Max Paley
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 7, 2018, at 08:09, Rich Lowenthal <
>>>> [log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> One of the operas I can never tire of is Ariadne auf Naxos--I don't
>>>>>> think I have ever heard a dull or routine performance of the work
>>>>>> (although I may just be blessed in this respect). It has been
>>>>>> well-served on disk with both studio and live performances. My go-to
>>>>>> conductor for Strauss is Bohm, and I find his Ariadne performances a
>>>>>> cut above most others. One of my favorite recordings is the live 1944
>>>>>> Bohm from Vienna, part of Strauss's 80th birthday celebrations (a
>>>>>> celebration only reluctantly sanctioned, given the Nazis' difficult
>>>>>> relationship with Strauss), with a wonderful
>>>>>> cast: Maria Reining as Ariadne, Max Lorenz as Bacchus, Alda Noni as
>>>>>> Zerbinetta and Seefried as the Composer (I am ever torn between
>>>>>> Seefried and Jurinac in that role.) The recent remasters are in
>>>>>> surprisingly good sound given the age of the recording. (I do admit
>>>> to
>>>>>> having some trouble listening to it, knowing the circumstances of the
>>>>>> performance.)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> For more recent recordings my favorites are the Karajan with
>>>>>>> Schwarzkopf
>>>>>> and Schock and the live Bohm with Janowitz and a young Gruberova--but
>>>>>> with the caveat that I have never enjoyed the timbre of James King's
>>>>>> voice, and far prefer Gary Lakes on the Levine recording, even though
>>>>>> Lakes makes a rather bland Bacchus. There is much to recommend in the
>>>>>> Sinopoli set--his last opera recording--although as was sometimes the
>>>>>> case with that conductor, the tempos are often too extreme.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> What other recordings do listers recommend?
>>>>>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
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