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Subject: Re: when is an aria not an aria? - was extra long musical introductions
From: Jon Goldberg <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Jon Goldberg <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Sat, 3 Feb 2018 11:30:04 -0500
Content-Type:text/plain
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Odd that you should bring up "Caro Nome" when, in your view, it's not an aria. 


On Sat, 3 Feb 2018 12:06:12 +0000, Bob Rideout <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>An aria is a piece of music sung by one person from beginning to
>end. There are at least twenty examples of the dictionary definition
>of "aria" on Google. There is no deviation fom the standard that an
>aria is performed by one "soloist".
>
>As for "A te, o cara" specifically, it is in every way a quartet and the
>fact that some tenors have recorded it as a solo changes nothing.
>Liszt wrote a ton of transcriptions for piano using music from opera.
>That does not make "Caro Nome", by definition, a solo for piano.
>
>The fact that John McEnroe and other tennis announcers call a Major
>a Grand Slam does not make it so. A Grand Slam is, and can only be,
>the four Majors in combination. But many, if not most, fans and
>pros call every Major a Grand Slam. Common usage is NOT the
>standard by which truth is determined, even when practiced
>by John McEnroe!
>
>I'm afraid we will have to disagree about both this issue and the
>definition of an "excellent post".
>
>Bob
>
>On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 06:42 Wendell Eatherly <[log in to unmask]>
>wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 2 Feb 2018 23:57:21 -0500, Jon Goldberg <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Jon's excellent post made most of the points I was going to make, but his
>> mention of baroque opera brings to mind "V'adore, pupille", where Cesare
>> interjects a line before the repeat of the first section of Cleopatra's
>> ARIA.
>>
>> To Jon's question about Baroque purists would object to calling something
>> that didn't have the ABA form an aria, I'd guess they wouldn't. Handel
>> didn't always observe the ABA form. Examples include Rodelinda's first aria
>> and one of Handel's most famous arias, Serse's "Ombra mai fu". Side-note:
>> checking the score, I see the tempo marking is "Larghetto", so why do they
>> call it the Largo from Serse?
>>
>> >Let's not get ridiculous. All of the aforementioned examples are arias, by
>> form and by
>> >their overwhelming nature as solo pieces. It is crazy and a disservice to
>> say that a mere
>> >interjection of "si" renders an other wise long, vocally showy solo piece
>> NOT an aria.
>> >Especially when it's always referred to, by singers, conductors, and
>> audiences alike, as an
>> >aria.
>> >
>> >In the case of "Ah fors' e lui" - the (possibly original) Ricordi score
>> says "scena ed aria."
>> >Scena, naturally, would refer to the orchestrally-accompanied recit - and
>> then the rest is
>> >an aria, regardless of Alfredo's singing.
>> >
>> >In the Baroque era, "aria" was essentially defined by its A-B-A (da capo)
>> form. When the
>> >cavatina/cabaletta form started appearing after that, were Baroque purists
>> refusing to call
>> >such a construct an aria? (Legit question to which I don't know the
>> answer.)
>>
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