LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 15.5

Help for OPERA-L Archives


OPERA-L Archives

OPERA-L Archives


View:

Next Message | Previous Message
Next in Topic | Previous in Topic
Next by Same Author | Previous by Same Author
Chronologically | Most Recent First
Proportional Font | Monospaced Font

Options:

Join or Leave OPERA-L
Reply | Post New Message
Search Archives


Subject: Re: Vinay- A recollection
From: Bob Rideout <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Bob Rideout <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Sun, 21 Jan 2018 15:52:02 +0000
Content-Type:text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
Parts/Attachments

text/plain (267 lines)


The Toscanini "Otello", one of the truly great recordings, and Vinay
is a volcano, both dramatically and vocally.

Bob

On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 10:41 donald kane <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Ramon Vinay's career as both tenor and baritone is impressive, and I
> recall performances at the Metropolitan opera in both ranges that were
> perfectly satisfying.  As a devoted lifetime record collector however, I
> cannot help but notice that he is one of that unusual breed of late 20th
> century artist having a huge repertory, who was simply a total stranger
> to the recording studio.  Yes, tapes abound of many complete operas
> featuring both the tenor Vinay and the baritone, from sources that circle
> the globe; he was in demand everywhere.  And yet, the Vinay discography,
> meaning examples of his singing that were put on disc or tape deliberately,
> and offered for sale by legitimate entities such as HMV ,RCA, EMI, Decca,
> Columbia, etc. simply do not exist. If there are one or two examples which
> I have overlooked, that doesn't alter the situation, from my point of view;
> in
> fact, I can't think of another singer of Vinay's stature, since Jean De
> Reszke,
> to whom the same question might apply.
>
> dtmk
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 9:39 AM, Juan Dzazopulos <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > Ramón Vinay (Chillán- Chile 1911/Puebla-Mexico 1996)
> > Vinay made his debut as baritone in Mexico, in 1931, as Alfonso in "La
> > Favorita". He sang as baritone, always in Mexico, until 1944 and his
> roles
> > included Amonasro, Barnaba, Di Luna, Scarpia, Rigoletto, Silvio and
> > Germont. His last baritone performance was again as Alfonso in "La
> > Favorita" on 23 January 1944. Five months later he made his tenor debut
> in
> > Mexico as Otello (27 June 1944). His tenor roles were Otello, Samson,
> > Cavaradossi, Don José, Des Grieux, Radames, Canio, Julien (Louise),
> Grishka
> > (La Leggenda della Città Invisibile di Kítesc), Tristan, Lohengrin,
> > Parsifal, Siegmund, Siegfried, Loge, Tannhäuser, Cyrano, Herod, Lensky
> and
> > Avito (L'amore dei tre Re). He sang for the last time a tenor role at the
> > Metropolitan in 1962, Herod in "Salome".
> > Vinay returned to the baritone clef in 1962 as Telramund in "Lohengrin"
> in
> > Bayreuth. He sang baritone roles until 1970: Telramund, Iago, Nerone
> > (L'Incoronazione di Poppea), Holländer, Dr. Schön, Le Mari (C'est la
> > Guerre, by Petrovics), Amfortas, Falstaff, Michele (Il Tabarro), Gianni
> > Schicchi, Escamillo, Belcore, Kurwenal, Prosper (The Tempest, by Martin),
> > Marcello and Tonio (Pagliacci).
> > At the same time he accepted to sing some bass roles: Varlaam, Bartolo
> > (both, in "Il barbiere di Siviglia" and "Le nozze di Figaro", Wotan,
> > Commendatore (Don Giovanni), Pizarro (Fidelio) and his last one,
> > Inquisitore (Don Carlo, Cleveland, 1971).  A total of 52 roles.
> > As regards his last Metropolitan appearance in 1966 as Don Bartolo in "Il
> > barbiere" (something he should have never accepted) obtained the
> following
> > review: "...not only was his voice gone, he was a flop as a
> comedian...the
> > sound was dry, the action unfunny..."  (Vinay sang a total of 169
> > performances at the MET between 1946 and 1966).
> > I had the privilege to see and hear him in Santiago, in 1956, as Otello,
> > Don José and Canio, performances that now after more than 60 years are
> > unforgettable, vivid in my memories. Ten years later I saw him as Scarpia
> > (1966), Falstaff, Escamillo and Marcello (1967) and Scarpia and Iago
> > (1969). By the way, his Don José in "Carmen" was a very young tenor
> > called...Plácido Domingo.
> > For those interested,  a biography of the artist was published in Chile
> in
> > 1997 (in Spanish): "Ramón Vinay, de Chillán a la Gloria" by Carlos
> Bastías
> > and Juan Dzazopulos. At present out of print.
> > In June 2009 the British magazine "The Record Collector" published my
> work
> > that included biography, chronology and discography. I think it can still
> > be obtained from the Editor.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > El Sat, 20 Jan 2018 21:47:58 -0500
> >  ANGELO MAMMANO <[log in to unmask]> escribió:
> >
> > Vinay sang Dr. Schoen with Opera Company of Boston in January of 1964.
> >> Joan Carroll was Lulu and Thebom was Geschwitz.  It was the Eastern U.
> S.
> >>
> >> premiere after Santa Fe.  He also returned to the company in February of
> >> 1967
> >>
> >> as Iago with Heater, Tebaldi and Theyard. His return-to-baritone days
> >> went on
> >>
> >> for quite a while and I was happy to see him after not being able to in
> >> his tenor
> >>
> >> period.  He is listed in the program as co-director with Caldwell. His
> >> Dr. Schoen
> >>
> >> was particularly impressive.  After the performance outside the theater
> I
> >> heard
> >>
> >> Sills say that Lulu would not appeal to audiences in contrast to
> Wozzeck.
> >>
> >> BTW while attending an Ernani dress several years ago at the Met I was
> >> talking
> >>
> >> with my companion about Boston and a woman who overheard us said that
> her
> >>
> >> husband had sung there and his name was William Dembaugh.  I recognized
> >> the
> >>
> >> name and told her that I had seen him at that '67 Otello as Roderigo.
> He
> >> thanked
> >>
> >> me profusely for remembering him and said that I made his day. There's
> >> nothing
> >>
> >> that makes singers happier than when someone remembers their
> performances.
> >>
> >>
> >> Angelo from Boston
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On January 20, 2018 at 6:45 PM David Shengold <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>     Vinay had started as a baritone and when he re-descended in
> category
> >>> he sang some major gigs through 1969 including Iago, Scarpia and
> >>> Telramund-- that even at Bayreuth ( witness the Sawallisch recording of
> >>> 1962).
> >>>
> >>>     In San Francisco  Opera's 1965-66 he sang not only Bartolo but
> >>> Scarpia  ( with Collier and Kirsten) and Dr. Schoen ( with Lear and
> Richard
> >>> Lewis)!
> >>>
> >>>     I imagine Bing-- who, one gathers from Kolodin's book, could not
> >>> wait to get rid of Vinay at the end of his tenor phase, gave him
> Bartolo as
> >>> a return vehicle to invite failure. Surely he would have done better
> in a
> >>> serious, non-bel canto part. Bing also had and deployed MacNeil and
> Colzani
> >>> , but surely Vinay (whom my parents recall as one of the greatest opera
> >>> actors they'd ever seen) would have been am improvement in 1964-64 as
> Iago
> >>> over Merrill-- for all his vocal excellence quite risible in the part,
> at
> >>> least as seen in the televised excerpts with McCracken. In 1964's
> LOHENGRIN
> >>> Bing had the sturdy and doubtless convincing Cassel as Telramund
> finish at
> >>> least one show for the vocally fatigued Uhde. Vinay could have helped
> out
> >>> there too.
> >>>
> >>>     Of course Bing "only did masterpieces" ( like MARTHA, THE GYPSY
> >>> BARON and THE LAST SAVAGE!!), so that no Vinay Dr. Schoen would have
> been
> >>> possible. Anyone see that assumption SF or LA?
> >>>
> >>>     What might an early 60s Old Met LULU have been like?
> >>>
> >>>     To cast just from the actual roster 1963-65
> >>>
> >>>     Lulu: Anneliese Rothenberger
> >>>     Geschwitz: Blanche Thebom/Kerstin Meyer
> >>>     Dr. Schoen: Ramon Vinay
> >>>     Alwa: John Alexander
> >>>     Schigolch: Paul Schoeffler/Marko Rothmueller
> >>>     Athlete/Rodrigo etc: John Reardon/Sherrill Milnes [perfect, no?]
> >>>     Schoolboy etc: Mildred Miller/Helen Vanni
> >>>
> >>>     Karl Boehm, conductor
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>     -David Shengold
> >>>
> >>>
> >> **********************************************
> >> OPERA-L on Facebook:
> >> http://www.facebook.com/groups/25703098721/
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> --------------
> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message to [log in to unmask]
> >> containing only the words:  SIGNOFF OPERA-L
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> --------------
> >> To stay subscribed but TURN OFF mail, send a message to
> >> [log in to unmask] containing only the words:  SET OPERA-L
> >> NOMAIL
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> --------------
> >> Modify your settings: http://listserv.bccls.org/archives/opera-l.html
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >> --------------
> >>
> >
> > **********************************************
> > OPERA-L on Facebook:
> > http://www.facebook.com/groups/25703098721/
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message to [log in to unmask]
> > containing only the words:  SIGNOFF OPERA-L
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To stay subscribed but TURN OFF mail, send a message to
> > [log in to unmask] containing only the words:  SET OPERA-L
> NOMAIL
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Modify your settings: http://listserv.bccls.org/archives/opera-l.html
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
> **********************************************
> OPERA-L on Facebook:
> http://www.facebook.com/groups/25703098721/
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message to [log in to unmask]
> containing only the words:  SIGNOFF OPERA-L
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To stay subscribed but TURN OFF mail, send a message to
> [log in to unmask] containing only the words:  SET OPERA-L NOMAIL
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Modify your settings: http://listserv.bccls.org/archives/opera-l.html
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

**********************************************
OPERA-L on Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/groups/25703098721/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message to [log in to unmask]
containing only the words:  SIGNOFF OPERA-L
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
To stay subscribed but TURN OFF mail, send a message to
[log in to unmask] containing only the words:  SET OPERA-L NOMAIL
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Modify your settings: http://listserv.bccls.org/archives/opera-l.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to: Top of Message | Previous Page | Main OPERA-L Page

Permalink



LISTSERV.BCCLS.ORG

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager