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Subject: Re: Vinay- A recollection
From: donald kane <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:donald kane <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Sun, 21 Jan 2018 10:41:00 -0500
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Ramon Vinay's career as both tenor and baritone is impressive, and I
recall performances at the Metropolitan opera in both ranges that were
perfectly satisfying.  As a devoted lifetime record collector however, I
cannot help but notice that he is one of that unusual breed of late 20th
century artist having a huge repertory, who was simply a total stranger
to the recording studio.  Yes, tapes abound of many complete operas
featuring both the tenor Vinay and the baritone, from sources that circle
the globe; he was in demand everywhere.  And yet, the Vinay discography,
meaning examples of his singing that were put on disc or tape deliberately,
and offered for sale by legitimate entities such as HMV ,RCA, EMI, Decca,
Columbia, etc. simply do not exist. If there are one or two examples which
I have overlooked, that doesn't alter the situation, from my point of view;
in
fact, I can't think of another singer of Vinay's stature, since Jean De
Reszke,
to whom the same question might apply.

dtmk


On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 9:39 AM, Juan Dzazopulos <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> Ramón Vinay (Chillán- Chile 1911/Puebla-Mexico 1996)
> Vinay made his debut as baritone in Mexico, in 1931, as Alfonso in "La
> Favorita". He sang as baritone, always in Mexico, until 1944 and his roles
> included Amonasro, Barnaba, Di Luna, Scarpia, Rigoletto, Silvio and
> Germont. His last baritone performance was again as Alfonso in "La
> Favorita" on 23 January 1944. Five months later he made his tenor debut in
> Mexico as Otello (27 June 1944). His tenor roles were Otello, Samson,
> Cavaradossi, Don José, Des Grieux, Radames, Canio, Julien (Louise), Grishka
> (La Leggenda della Città Invisibile di Kítesc), Tristan, Lohengrin,
> Parsifal, Siegmund, Siegfried, Loge, Tannhäuser, Cyrano, Herod, Lensky and
> Avito (L'amore dei tre Re). He sang for the last time a tenor role at the
> Metropolitan in 1962, Herod in "Salome".
> Vinay returned to the baritone clef in 1962 as Telramund in "Lohengrin" in
> Bayreuth. He sang baritone roles until 1970: Telramund, Iago, Nerone
> (L'Incoronazione di Poppea), Holländer, Dr. Schön, Le Mari (C'est la
> Guerre, by Petrovics), Amfortas, Falstaff, Michele (Il Tabarro), Gianni
> Schicchi, Escamillo, Belcore, Kurwenal, Prosper (The Tempest, by Martin),
> Marcello and Tonio (Pagliacci).
> At the same time he accepted to sing some bass roles: Varlaam, Bartolo
> (both, in "Il barbiere di Siviglia" and "Le nozze di Figaro", Wotan,
> Commendatore (Don Giovanni), Pizarro (Fidelio) and his last one,
> Inquisitore (Don Carlo, Cleveland, 1971).  A total of 52 roles.
> As regards his last Metropolitan appearance in 1966 as Don Bartolo in "Il
> barbiere" (something he should have never accepted) obtained the following
> review: "...not only was his voice gone, he was a flop as a comedian...the
> sound was dry, the action unfunny..."  (Vinay sang a total of 169
> performances at the MET between 1946 and 1966).
> I had the privilege to see and hear him in Santiago, in 1956, as Otello,
> Don José and Canio, performances that now after more than 60 years are
> unforgettable, vivid in my memories. Ten years later I saw him as Scarpia
> (1966), Falstaff, Escamillo and Marcello (1967) and Scarpia and Iago
> (1969). By the way, his Don José in "Carmen" was a very young tenor
> called...Plácido Domingo.
> For those interested,  a biography of the artist was published in Chile in
> 1997 (in Spanish): "Ramón Vinay, de Chillán a la Gloria" by Carlos Bastías
> and Juan Dzazopulos. At present out of print.
> In June 2009 the British magazine "The Record Collector" published my work
> that included biography, chronology and discography. I think it can still
> be obtained from the Editor.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> El Sat, 20 Jan 2018 21:47:58 -0500
>  ANGELO MAMMANO <[log in to unmask]> escribió:
>
> Vinay sang Dr. Schoen with Opera Company of Boston in January of 1964.
>> Joan Carroll was Lulu and Thebom was Geschwitz.  It was the Eastern U. S.
>>
>> premiere after Santa Fe.  He also returned to the company in February of
>> 1967
>>
>> as Iago with Heater, Tebaldi and Theyard. His return-to-baritone days
>> went on
>>
>> for quite a while and I was happy to see him after not being able to in
>> his tenor
>>
>> period.  He is listed in the program as co-director with Caldwell. His
>> Dr. Schoen
>>
>> was particularly impressive.  After the performance outside the theater I
>> heard
>>
>> Sills say that Lulu would not appeal to audiences in contrast to Wozzeck.
>>
>> BTW while attending an Ernani dress several years ago at the Met I was
>> talking
>>
>> with my companion about Boston and a woman who overheard us said that her
>>
>> husband had sung there and his name was William Dembaugh.  I recognized
>> the
>>
>> name and told her that I had seen him at that '67 Otello as Roderigo.  He
>> thanked
>>
>> me profusely for remembering him and said that I made his day. There's
>> nothing
>>
>> that makes singers happier than when someone remembers their performances.
>>
>>
>> Angelo from Boston
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On January 20, 2018 at 6:45 PM David Shengold <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     Vinay had started as a baritone and when he re-descended in category
>>> he sang some major gigs through 1969 including Iago, Scarpia and
>>> Telramund-- that even at Bayreuth ( witness the Sawallisch recording of
>>> 1962).
>>>
>>>     In San Francisco  Opera's 1965-66 he sang not only Bartolo but
>>> Scarpia  ( with Collier and Kirsten) and Dr. Schoen ( with Lear and Richard
>>> Lewis)!
>>>
>>>     I imagine Bing-- who, one gathers from Kolodin's book, could not
>>> wait to get rid of Vinay at the end of his tenor phase, gave him Bartolo as
>>> a return vehicle to invite failure. Surely he would have done better in a
>>> serious, non-bel canto part. Bing also had and deployed MacNeil and Colzani
>>> , but surely Vinay (whom my parents recall as one of the greatest opera
>>> actors they'd ever seen) would have been am improvement in 1964-64 as Iago
>>> over Merrill-- for all his vocal excellence quite risible in the part, at
>>> least as seen in the televised excerpts with McCracken. In 1964's LOHENGRIN
>>> Bing had the sturdy and doubtless convincing Cassel as Telramund finish at
>>> least one show for the vocally fatigued Uhde. Vinay could have helped out
>>> there too.
>>>
>>>     Of course Bing "only did masterpieces" ( like MARTHA, THE GYPSY
>>> BARON and THE LAST SAVAGE!!), so that no Vinay Dr. Schoen would have been
>>> possible. Anyone see that assumption SF or LA?
>>>
>>>     What might an early 60s Old Met LULU have been like?
>>>
>>>     To cast just from the actual roster 1963-65
>>>
>>>     Lulu: Anneliese Rothenberger
>>>     Geschwitz: Blanche Thebom/Kerstin Meyer
>>>     Dr. Schoen: Ramon Vinay
>>>     Alwa: John Alexander
>>>     Schigolch: Paul Schoeffler/Marko Rothmueller
>>>     Athlete/Rodrigo etc: John Reardon/Sherrill Milnes [perfect, no?]
>>>     Schoolboy etc: Mildred Miller/Helen Vanni
>>>
>>>     Karl Boehm, conductor
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     -David Shengold
>>>
>>>
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