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Subject: Re: when any career ends in disgrace
From: Kiwi <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Kiwi <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Mon, 1 Jan 2018 14:28:42 -0500
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OJ Simpson comes immediately to mindóhe was found innocent in a criminal case and guilty in a civil one.  He escaped criminal charges because of who he was, not because he was innocent. Good enough for you?  So, no, not at how you present your argument.

How about looking at our current federal situation, where a handful of men with insider information have made bargains to tell the truth (which they should have been willing to do as good people, right?) that will keep them from facing any serious criminal punishment.  These people have pleaded guilty so there is no allegations or assumptions.  Good enough for you?

How about any number of rape cases in which the judge interposes himself (almost always a he) to let the woman know she was more guilty than the perpetrator, even when there is no doubt about the guilt of the guy:  since she invited it, she should have expected the result and case dismissed.

And to keep it focused on the Met, apparently there are documents that prove that the Met and its boards and management have been willing to go behind Levine and pick up the pieces of broken life.  Thatís not assumption or allegation;  that is fact.

People end up ignoring fact when they donít like it.  Thatís another reason why we are currently is such a mess in this country:  people have a sliding scale of outrage based on how personally invovled they are.






From: Kathy Boyce 
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2018 12:46 PM
To: Kiwi ; [log in to unmask] 
Subject: Re: when any career ends in disgrace

Although it all may be true, it seems to me you are equating accusations with a guilty verdict in a situation when there has been no trial or verdict.  This applies not just to Levine, but others who have been accused of various acts or gestures.  Apparently there is no need for due process in these situations since you have already condemned these people.

And I am speaking as one who worked most of my adult life with abused children, and usually felt, once the perpetrator was found guilty the punishment was never harsh enough.  But there was a trial, with evidence,  and a verdict.




On 1/1/18 12:38 PM, Kiwi wrote:

  Used to be that guilty people were appropriately punished, but it seems to me in the last decade or so a double standard has been set which allows certain people to commit crimes and not have any sort of penalty lodged against them.  I think we can all remember news stories of people who, by objective standards, were guilty and yet for societal, political, or financial reasons were never required to face punishment.  Oh, a few egregious folks serve as exceptions and examples but arguably, if you are a 'special' person (for any number of reasons), justice may not be served when you are caught.  Justice has a peculiar way, at present, of finding loopholes for a heck of lot of illegal / immoral activities.  I do believe that is one of the growing inequalities in our nation. 

  As for Levine, I understand music is an emotional component in a person's life and perhaps that emotional connection allows an individual to establish separate sets of standards for Levine's (and others) conduct.  I'm not one of them but I do understand how personal pleasure can cause someone to ignore the damage done to others by Levine.  After all, if I derive pleasure from something, and I am a good person, then how can it possible be wrong? 

  I think, perhaps, we would all be surprised by a lot of what goes on within the music (or entertainment) business that never makes it to press but is sordid and untidy and immoral and crass.  And, to disagree with Les, I don't think management is held responsible, even when they are clearly involved with, at minimum, cover-up.  The Met Board and Met Management is a perfect example:  if the stories are correct and these folks have been operating behinds the scenes to clean up after Levine and silence the victims for decades, and Gelb knew about the latest dust-up for a year and sat on it hoping it would shrivel up and blow away, should they be punished?  Instead, they will close around each other and use their considerable political and financial clout to remain 'clean.'  You getter believe the lawyers have already figured how to play the get out of jail card for them. 

  Sadly, I enter 2018 completed jaded and disillusioned. 

  Kiwi 


  -----Original Message----- From: Les Mitnick 
  Sent: Monday, January 01, 2018 11:30 AM 
  To: [log in to unmask] 
  Subject: when any career ends in disgrace 

  i cannot understand the notion that it's only a sexual indiscretion that can result in a 
  dismissal.  That's sheer lunacy.  I can assure you that if someone like the General Manager, 
  the President of the Board, or even a famous singer were found to have made big money off 
  a Ponzi scheme, they'd be dismissed as well.  If anyone who held such a position was 
  discovered to be "money laundering", they'd also be fired.  I mean, let's be honest 
  everybody, Bernie Madoff is not exactly living a life of honor and glory. He's a son of a 
  bitch without a conscience and deserved exactly what he got.  We're not comparing crimes 
  here.  All "perps" who commit crimes that inflict emotional or physical suffering on others 
  are beneath contempt.  I do not for a moment "move the needle" on this point. 
      I found the article by that Sved fellow to be pathetic.  I can admire and respect Mr. 
  Levine's accomplishments as a musician, but as a human being, NEVER.  I cannot listen to 
  the voices of Tiana Lemnitz and Maria Mueller without them turning to poison in my ears. 
  I won't spend a penny on a Mel Gibson film, and nor would I give Steve Bannon a moment 
  of my time. 
     From my point of view, it's like asking for forgiveness and redemption for Don Michael 
  Corleone, Bernie Madoff, or even Charles Manson. We will never know the full extent or 
  depth of Mr. Levine's indiscretions, but we know enough -MORE than enough --  that's more 
  than sufficient to taint his legacy forever. 

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-- 
Kathy Boyce
[log in to unmask]

New Hampshire
And the night shall be filled with music... Longfellow
http://www.cafepress.com/operabayreuth

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