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Subject: Re: when any career ends in disgrace
From: robert bragdon <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:robert bragdon <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Mon, 1 Jan 2018 13:24:29 -0500
Content-Type:text/plain
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Well put Kathy..... This type of guilty without a trial is what leads to a
very nasty form of vigilantism. Our country doesn't need this.
   Bob in New Hampshire.

On Jan 1, 2018 12:47 PM, "Kathy Boyce" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Although it all may be true, it seems to me you are equating accusations
> with a guilty verdict in a situation when there has been no trial or
> verdict.  This applies not just to Levine, but others who have been accused
> of various acts or gestures.  Apparently there is no need for due process
> in these situations since you have already condemned these people.
>
> And I am speaking as one who worked most of my adult life with abused
> children, and usually felt, once the perpetrator was found guilty the
> punishment was never harsh enough.  But there was a trial, with evidence,
> and a verdict.
>
>
> On 1/1/18 12:38 PM, Kiwi wrote:
>
>> Used to be that guilty people were appropriately punished, but it seems
>> to me in the last decade or so a double standard has been set which allows
>> certain people to commit crimes and not have any sort of penalty lodged
>> against them.  I think we can all remember news stories of people who, by
>> objective standards, were guilty and yet for societal, political, or
>> financial reasons were never required to face punishment.  Oh, a few
>> egregious folks serve as exceptions and examples but arguably, if you are a
>> 'special' person (for any number of reasons), justice may not be served
>> when you are caught.  Justice has a peculiar way, at present, of finding
>> loopholes for a heck of lot of illegal / immoral activities.  I do believe
>> that is one of the growing inequalities in our nation.
>>
>> As for Levine, I understand music is an emotional component in a person's
>> life and perhaps that emotional connection allows an individual to
>> establish separate sets of standards for Levine's (and others) conduct.
>> I'm not one of them but I do understand how personal pleasure can cause
>> someone to ignore the damage done to others by Levine.  After all, if I
>> derive pleasure from something, and I am a good person, then how can it
>> possible be wrong?
>>
>> I think, perhaps, we would all be surprised by a lot of what goes on
>> within the music (or entertainment) business that never makes it to press
>> but is sordid and untidy and immoral and crass.  And, to disagree with Les,
>> I don't think management is held responsible, even when they are clearly
>> involved with, at minimum, cover-up.  The Met Board and Met Management is a
>> perfect example: if the stories are correct and these folks have been
>> operating behinds the scenes to clean up after Levine and silence the
>> victims for decades, and Gelb knew about the latest dust-up for a year and
>> sat on it hoping it would shrivel up and blow away, should they be
>> punished?  Instead, they will close around each other and use their
>> considerable political and financial clout to remain 'clean.'  You getter
>> believe the lawyers have already figured how to play the get out of jail
>> card for them.
>>
>> Sadly, I enter 2018 completed jaded and disillusioned.
>>
>> Kiwi
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Les Mitnick
>> Sent: Monday, January 01, 2018 11:30 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: when any career ends in disgrace
>>
>> i cannot understand the notion that it's only a sexual indiscretion that
>> can result in a
>> dismissal.  That's sheer lunacy.  I can assure you that if someone like
>> the General Manager,
>> the President of the Board, or even a famous singer were found to have
>> made big money off
>> a Ponzi scheme, they'd be dismissed as well.  If anyone who held such a
>> position was
>> discovered to be "money laundering", they'd also be fired.  I mean, let's
>> be honest
>> everybody, Bernie Madoff is not exactly living a life of honor and glory.
>> He's a son of a
>> bitch without a conscience and deserved exactly what he got. We're not
>> comparing crimes
>> here.  All "perps" who commit crimes that inflict emotional or physical
>> suffering on others
>> are beneath contempt.  I do not for a moment "move the needle" on this
>> point.
>>     I found the article by that Sved fellow to be pathetic.  I can admire
>> and respect Mr.
>> Levine's accomplishments as a musician, but as a human being, NEVER.  I
>> cannot listen to
>> the voices of Tiana Lemnitz and Maria Mueller without them turning to
>> poison in my ears.
>> I won't spend a penny on a Mel Gibson film, and nor would I give Steve
>> Bannon a moment
>> of my time.
>>    From my point of view, it's like asking for forgiveness and redemption
>> for Don Michael
>> Corleone, Bernie Madoff, or even Charles Manson. We will never know the
>> full extent or
>> depth of Mr. Levine's indiscretions, but we know enough -MORE than enough
>> --  that's more
>> than sufficient to taint his legacy forever.
>>
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>
> --
> Kathy Boyce
> [log in to unmask]
>
> New Hampshire
> And the night shall be filled with music... Longfellow
> http://www.cafepress.com/operabayreuth
>
>
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