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Subject: Re: when any career ends in disgrace
From: Kathy Boyce <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Kathy Boyce <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Mon, 1 Jan 2018 12:46:58 -0500

text/plain (133 lines)

Although it all may be true, it seems to me you are equating accusations 
with a guilty verdict in a situation when there has been no trial or 
verdict.  This applies not just to Levine, but others who have been 
accused of various acts or gestures.  Apparently there is no need for 
due process in these situations since you have already condemned these 

And I am speaking as one who worked most of my adult life with abused 
children, and usually felt, once the perpetrator was found guilty the 
punishment was never harsh enough.  But there was a trial, with 
evidence,  and a verdict.

On 1/1/18 12:38 PM, Kiwi wrote:
> Used to be that guilty people were appropriately punished, but it 
> seems to me in the last decade or so a double standard has been set 
> which allows certain people to commit crimes and not have any sort of 
> penalty lodged against them.  I think we can all remember news stories 
> of people who, by objective standards, were guilty and yet for 
> societal, political, or financial reasons were never required to face 
> punishment.  Oh, a few egregious folks serve as exceptions and 
> examples but arguably, if you are a 'special' person (for any number 
> of reasons), justice may not be served when you are caught.  Justice 
> has a peculiar way, at present, of finding loopholes for a heck of lot 
> of illegal / immoral activities.  I do believe that is one of the 
> growing inequalities in our nation.
> As for Levine, I understand music is an emotional component in a 
> person's life and perhaps that emotional connection allows an 
> individual to establish separate sets of standards for Levine's (and 
> others) conduct.  I'm not one of them but I do understand how personal 
> pleasure can cause someone to ignore the damage done to others by 
> Levine.  After all, if I derive pleasure from something, and I am a 
> good person, then how can it possible be wrong?
> I think, perhaps, we would all be surprised by a lot of what goes on 
> within the music (or entertainment) business that never makes it to 
> press but is sordid and untidy and immoral and crass.  And, to 
> disagree with Les, I don't think management is held responsible, even 
> when they are clearly involved with, at minimum, cover-up.  The Met 
> Board and Met Management is a perfect example: if the stories are 
> correct and these folks have been operating behinds the scenes to 
> clean up after Levine and silence the victims for decades, and Gelb 
> knew about the latest dust-up for a year and sat on it hoping it would 
> shrivel up and blow away, should they be punished?  Instead, they will 
> close around each other and use their considerable political and 
> financial clout to remain 'clean.'  You getter believe the lawyers 
> have already figured how to play the get out of jail card for them.
> Sadly, I enter 2018 completed jaded and disillusioned.
> Kiwi
> -----Original Message----- From: Les Mitnick
> Sent: Monday, January 01, 2018 11:30 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: when any career ends in disgrace
> i cannot understand the notion that it's only a sexual indiscretion 
> that can result in a
> dismissal.  That's sheer lunacy.  I can assure you that if someone 
> like the General Manager,
> the President of the Board, or even a famous singer were found to have 
> made big money off
> a Ponzi scheme, they'd be dismissed as well.  If anyone who held such 
> a position was
> discovered to be "money laundering", they'd also be fired.  I mean, 
> let's be honest
> everybody, Bernie Madoff is not exactly living a life of honor and 
> glory. He's a son of a
> bitch without a conscience and deserved exactly what he got. We're not 
> comparing crimes
> here.  All "perps" who commit crimes that inflict emotional or 
> physical suffering on others
> are beneath contempt.  I do not for a moment "move the needle" on this 
> point.
>     I found the article by that Sved fellow to be pathetic.  I can 
> admire and respect Mr.
> Levine's accomplishments as a musician, but as a human being, NEVER.  
> I cannot listen to
> the voices of Tiana Lemnitz and Maria Mueller without them turning to 
> poison in my ears.
> I won't spend a penny on a Mel Gibson film, and nor would I give Steve 
> Bannon a moment
> of my time.
>    From my point of view, it's like asking for forgiveness and 
> redemption for Don Michael
> Corleone, Bernie Madoff, or even Charles Manson. We will never know 
> the full extent or
> depth of Mr. Levine's indiscretions, but we know enough -MORE than 
> enough --  that's more
> than sufficient to taint his legacy forever.
> **********************************************
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Kathy Boyce
[log in to unmask]

New Hampshire
And the night shall be filled with music... Longfellow

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