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Subject: Re: ENO's Magnificent "Death in Venice" (DVD)
From: tom ponti <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:tom ponti <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Sat, 16 Dec 2017 15:01:42 +0000
Content-Type:text/plain
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I probably should not go here, but would not your and Frank's logic apply to Roy Moore, if you take politics out of the equation? Moore is a nut job for many reasons, who thankfully, will never be in the US Senate but perhaps he is not the evil sex predator as he has been charged? The same is probably more true with Levine, who probably had more mental issues, sexually, than Moore and some of the other men charged. As wonderful as sex can be, it has caused misery for so many men and women.  I think Frank stated my position perfectly, much better than I could-LOL!


________________________________
From: Discussion of opera and related issues <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of donald kane <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2017 9:26 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OPERA-L] ENO's Magnificent "Death in Venice" (DVD)

There is also the traditional American sport, dating back to sixteenth
century
Salem, of hunting for witches,. the "me too" movement being a choice
example.
Add to that our wildly imprecise use of  the English language: how can the
mild
terms misconduct or misbehaviour be applied to anything ranging from casual
flirtation to bodily assault?

dtmk

On Sat, Dec 16, 2017 at 5:26 AM, Frank Cadenhead <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> Sorry to hijack a topic for another purpose but it is a fact that opera
> stories reflect
> true emotions and sexual compulsions and, watching from afar America's
> sudden
> discovery of "improper" sexual behavior, it might be relevant.
> This opera's story, of a man in his final years having a flirtation with a
> young
> adolescent, might be relevant to today's newspaper stories. As an American
> living
> abroad, I am reminded of America's persistent avoidance of dialogue about
> issues
> of sexual compulsion and deviance and how the story of James Levine, among
> others, has not been properly explored in the "real world" context. These
> issues
> are far more complex and subtile than the present dialogue you are hearing.
> First, the boy who is attracting the attention of Aschenbach is acting
> deliberately.
> Yes there are adolescents who understand that they are gay and are
> attracted to
> older men. Yes, there are male (and female) adolescents who are attracted
> to
> older women. Those who inhabit the gay world are aware of this and porn
> sites are
> full of examples that wouldn't be there unless they got clicks.
> The American avoidance of dialogue about sex is another major factor in
> the story.
> How could Levine's "abuse" continue for years without the child's parents
> being
> aware? The "wall of silence" around sex, an American tradition, would be
> the chief
> culprit. There is much less of a "wall of silence" in opera. Opera can
> teach you
> about the real world and its complications. Gilda still loves her abusive
> young man
> even after Rigoletto arranges the quartet and she sacrifices her life for
> him.
> Please, nobody read this as some sort of justification of any sexual
> behavior. It is
> intended to simply indicate that often the story is more complicated that
> the
> "sexual harassment" or "sexual abuse" tags indicate and it has always been
> complicated.
>
> Frank Cadenhead
>
>
>
>
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