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Subject: Re: Girls of the Golden West
From: donald kane <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:donald kane <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Sat, 25 Nov 2017 16:43:04 -0500
Content-Type:text/plain
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text/plain (190 lines)


If you read the libretto, you will find not a word of whatever
it is you have called "pidgin English".  Whenever Wowkle
has something to say beyond her grunts, she does so in Italian.
Billy is more taciturn; we get nothing from him but "ugh".  I know
people like that, and there are lots of times when I myself can
find no better way to express myself.

dtmk


On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 3:43 PM, Katalin Mitchell <[log in to unmask]
> wrote:

> My favorites in Fanciulla are the natives who sing “Ugh! and use pidgin
> English. When will the PC police demand a change in the libretto?
> Kati
>
> > On Nov 25, 2017, at 3:27 PM, donald kane <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > Can you explain exactly what it is about an accent that
> > makes you laugh?
> >
> > dtmk
> >
> >> On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 2:22 PM, Paul Ricchi <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I agree with David, but I always thought “ Allo Meenie!” one of the best
> >> laugh lines in opera.
> >>
> >>> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 3:32 PM David Wagner <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Thanks are due to Frank for posting a review he so strongly disagrees
> >> with.
> >>> But, though without the advantage of having seen "Girls," I must agree
> >> with
> >>> krboyce. Unless Kosman's review is just factually inaccurate, "Girls"
> >>> sounds, not so much like a PC teach-in, but like a geeky College
> >>> Republican's send-up of a PC teach-in`.
> >>>
> >>> I dispute only Kosman's line about of Puccini's "laughable Italian
> miners
> >>> and...singular heroine." Minnie's singularity as a heroine is a plot
> >>> premise. OK, so the secondary profession of most western women who kept
> >>> saloons was probably not that of schoolmarm/Bible teacher. But the
> >> libretto
> >>> accounts for how Minnie is who she is, in the moving duet in which
> Rance
> >>> does the same for himself.
> >>>
> >>> As for the miners, they're only Italian in the sense that Puccini and
> >> that
> >>> Mozart's Spaniards in Don Giovanni and Figaro are, or his Egyptians in
> >>> Flute are German: i.e. the composer and librettist(s) worked in the
> >>> language(s) they were familiar with and were expected of them by most
> of
> >>> their audiences. Idk, maybe they should have written Fanciulla in
> English
> >>> bc of its Met premiere; but that would probably have resulted in more
> >>> comical anomalies than their frequent shouts of  "Hello!" Apart from
> >> that,
> >>> they're no more Italian than the libretto language makes them be:
> they're
> >>> Joe, Happy, Sid, etc., not Giuseppe, Felice, and Siddo, or Sidneo.
> >>>
> >>> All this is on my mind bc I recently reviewed the Virginia Opera's
> >>> Fanciulla, and immersed myself in the work in preparation. I'll post
> that
> >>> review separately.
> >>>
> >>> -David Wagner
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 6:04 PM, [log in to unmask] <
> >> [log in to unmask]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Kosman's review is spot on, if scathing. Art forms morph through time.
> >>> But
> >>>> their are expectations that what is produced will have some and
> >> relevance
> >>>> when compared to other examples of the genre. I probably should not
> >> enter
> >>>> this discussion at all. But I was there, twice so far with one more
> >>>> performance coming. And I pretty much agree with what Kosman said.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from XFINITY Connect Mobile App
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ------ Original Message ------
> >>>>
> >>>> From: Frank Cadenhead
> >>>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>>> Sent: November 23, 2017 at 1:47 AM
> >>>> Subject: Girls of the Golden West
> >>>>
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