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Subject: Re: Turandot
From: Ombrarecds <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Ombrarecds <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Wed, 8 Nov 2017 09:56:12 -0600
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The music in Turandot reflects the savage aspect of the characters and the populace. It is perfect. You can almost smell the crowds and the blood. Turandot' s music is icy, Calaf's is pure testosterone. I never fail to be swept up in the story. 

Patrick Byrne

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 8, 2017, at 9:49 AM, Larry Kellum <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> HI guys! How f......@&#...ing dare anyone complain about my favorite
> opera that I saw w/ Nilsson, Dimitrova & Marton.............paired w/
> Hong (twice), Millo & Stratas as Liu........................back me up
> .....and have Freni & !st Tebaldi & Caballe recordings of
> Liu................who is this jerk????????????????????? Larry
> 
> On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 10:03 AM, Rich Lowenthal
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> I have to say that I consider Turandot by far the most horrifying opera in
>> the canon--far more than Sweeney Todd (cannibalism and all). Turandot is a
>> monster--which she wasn't in the earlier versions of the story--something
>> that the work fails to realize. I do not care whether villains are punished
>> in stories, but I do ask that their villainy be recognized, and not erased
>> by pretty sets and crashing chords. Somehow, the ending of Turandot asks us
>> to pretend that everything that happened before, including the torture and
>> death of Liu (surely one of the most despicable scenes in opera) be somehow
>> redeemed by the magic of "love." There is a misogyny and sadism present in
>> much of Puccini's work that comes to full fruition in Turandot, but this
>> central aspect of the opera is rarely noted. (I often wonder how Puccini
>> would have set "Bluebeard's Castle.")
>> 
>> Is there another opera or musical that so little merits its "happy ending"?
>> I think the only way the work should reasonably be performed today is as
>> some sort of Brechtian satire--which would be in keeping with its commedia
>> del'arte origins.
>> 
>> I do like much of the music, but hate myself for it.
>> 
>> ------ Original Message ------
>> From: "G. Paul Padillo" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Sent: 11/7/2017 10:48:55 AM
>> Subject: Re: Turandot
>> 
>>> Idia wrote (in part):
>>> 
>>> “It's a masterpiece and I've often mused upon how the ending would have
>>> been had Puccini
>>> lived to finish it.”
>>> 
>>> Of course we can never fully or really know, but I’ll put in my annual
>>> damnation of Toscanini
>>> for demanding Alfano shorten his original ending, which to this day is
>>> still almost never
>>> heard.  The complete Alfano ending really opens up the opera, makes more
>>> than just “hash”
>>> of the ending, and fleshes out the characters of Turandot and Calaf to be
>>> slightly more than
>>> the cardboard cartoon fairy tale characters.  Turandot’s “melting” makes
>>> far more sense
>>> when she’s given actual time to reflect and melt – and sing some lovely
>>> music to, boot.
>>> 
>>> Then there’s the case of the “end” of the finale – which, once heard
>>> leaves the ending we
>>> know feeling just a bit in the dust.  It is the definition of a “sonic
>>> spectacular” – even the
>>> orchestration is different, the crazy triple triplets (or whatever they
>>> are) of the trumpets
>>> adding even more luster and brilliance to what we typically hear.
>>> Additionally, Alfano,
>>> according to Puccini’s wishes, has Turandot and Calaf singing, their
>>> voices rising - sailing
>>> above the massed forces instead of the usual them just standing around
>>> looking on in
>>> silence.
>>> 
>>> For those who still aren’t familiar with it . . . get a load of this!
>>> 
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q09_thEg6AA
>>> 
>>> p.
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>> 
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