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Subject: Re: Turandot
From: Larry Kellum <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Larry Kellum <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Wed, 8 Nov 2017 10:49:33 -0500
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HI guys! How f......@&#...ing dare anyone complain about my favorite
opera that I saw w/ Nilsson, Dimitrova & Marton.............paired w/
Hong (twice), Millo & Stratas as Liu........................back me up
.....and have Freni & !st Tebaldi & Caballe recordings of
Liu................who is this jerk????????????????????? Larry

On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 10:03 AM, Rich Lowenthal
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I have to say that I consider Turandot by far the most horrifying opera in
> the canon--far more than Sweeney Todd (cannibalism and all). Turandot is a
> monster--which she wasn't in the earlier versions of the story--something
> that the work fails to realize. I do not care whether villains are punished
> in stories, but I do ask that their villainy be recognized, and not erased
> by pretty sets and crashing chords. Somehow, the ending of Turandot asks us
> to pretend that everything that happened before, including the torture and
> death of Liu (surely one of the most despicable scenes in opera) be somehow
> redeemed by the magic of "love." There is a misogyny and sadism present in
> much of Puccini's work that comes to full fruition in Turandot, but this
> central aspect of the opera is rarely noted. (I often wonder how Puccini
> would have set "Bluebeard's Castle.")
>
> Is there another opera or musical that so little merits its "happy ending"?
> I think the only way the work should reasonably be performed today is as
> some sort of Brechtian satire--which would be in keeping with its commedia
> del'arte origins.
>
> I do like much of the music, but hate myself for it.
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "G. Paul Padillo" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: 11/7/2017 10:48:55 AM
> Subject: Re: Turandot
>
>> Idia wrote (in part):
>>
>> “It's a masterpiece and I've often mused upon how the ending would have
>> been had Puccini
>> lived to finish it.”
>>
>> Of course we can never fully or really know, but I’ll put in my annual
>> damnation of Toscanini
>> for demanding Alfano shorten his original ending, which to this day is
>> still almost never
>> heard.  The complete Alfano ending really opens up the opera, makes more
>> than just “hash”
>> of the ending, and fleshes out the characters of Turandot and Calaf to be
>> slightly more than
>> the cardboard cartoon fairy tale characters.  Turandot’s “melting” makes
>> far more sense
>> when she’s given actual time to reflect and melt – and sing some lovely
>> music to, boot.
>>
>> Then there’s the case of the “end” of the finale – which, once heard
>> leaves the ending we
>> know feeling just a bit in the dust.  It is the definition of a “sonic
>> spectacular” – even the
>> orchestration is different, the crazy triple triplets (or whatever they
>> are) of the trumpets
>> adding even more luster and brilliance to what we typically hear.
>> Additionally, Alfano,
>> according to Puccini’s wishes, has Turandot and Calaf singing, their
>> voices rising - sailing
>> above the massed forces instead of the usual them just standing around
>> looking on in
>> silence.
>>
>> For those who still aren’t familiar with it . . . get a load of this!
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q09_thEg6AA
>>
>> p.
>>  --------------------------------------------------
>
>
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