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Subject: Re: Halloween: Operas to Chill Your Blood By
From: donald kane <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:donald kane <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Mon, 6 Nov 2017 13:46:50 -0500
Content-Type:text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
Parts/Attachments

text/plain (254 lines)


This "what would opera do without crime and mayhemr?" is so predictable, and
so shallow it almost seems not worth responding to.  The short answer to it
is
that when a TROVATORE, SALOME, or TURANDOT ends, we are not left with a
nasty taste in our mouths.  Well I'M NOT.

I attribute this lack of appetite, for the abhorrence I have for most
"darkly comic"
types of entertainment; an appetite which I believe ought to be eliminated
from
one's system forever, not too long after high school.


Take that, Stephen Sondheim;  It's hard to beat the likes of "Have an
Eggroll Mr.
Goldstone", and I always hasten to add PACIFIC OVERTURES to any list of most
memorable Broadway shows, but I'd be much happier if you had never stumbled
on
the subject matter of S. T..

dtmk









On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 10:30 AM, Jon Goldberg <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> And, "hateful vengeance" (the intriguing phrase used by Mr. Kane - is
> vengeance ever not
> hateful??) is everywhere in opera plots. And it's certainly no less valid
> or thrilling in
> Sweeney as a plot device than it is in any standard opera.
>
> I can't think of any overt cannibalism in opera to this point (perhaps
> someone should try
> to musicalize the Donner Party story someday? lol), save for a reference
> to wishful self-
> cannibalism in the Gluttony scene in Mahagonny. But of course even before
> Sweeney
> there was Rocky Horror (the cult film and its staged predecessor), where a
> plot point
> about "Meat Loaf" (at least in the film, as the delivery boy/biker dude
> literally turned into
> dinner is played by that iconic rockster) is just as darkly comic as
> Sweeney's "A Little
> Priest."
>
> Not to mention that the legend of Sweeney Todd was around for more than a
> century
> before Sondheim and Hugh Wheeler did their adaptation - they were hardly
> the first to do
> some sort of adaptation of it, though certainly theirs has made the most
> impact in our
> day. But of course we have our share of posters out here who seem to abhor
> anything
> that approaches recent successful artistic *popular* culture, and I bet
> that's the real
> objection. I'm imagining that if some famous 19th century European opera
> composer had
> done a successful operatic treatment of the story (or of, say, Titus
> Andronicus, or the
> Donner Party etc), Mr. Kane might have loved it. You might even say he
> would have - gulp
> - eaten it up...;-)
>
>
>
> On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 11:05:18 -0600, Ombrarecds <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> >Opera plots in general, Salome, Turandot, Macbeth, Trovatore, Anna
> Bolena, all lovely
> little tales.
> >
> >Patrick Byrne
> >
> >Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Nov 5, 2017, at 10:45 AM, Evan Gamsu <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>
> >> If the criteria for finding a work attractive is based on its subject
> matter, I fear you've
> just ruled out most of the popular canon. Anybody skip a good Ring Cycle
> over fratricide,
> greed, vengeance,  or incest lately?
> >>
> >>
> >> Evan G.
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 11/5/2017 10:20 AM, donald kane wrote:
> >>> Two of the most unattractive activities a human being can engage in,
> >>> hateful vengeance and cannibalism, afflict, not the score, needless to
> say,
> >>> but are the essential themes of the work.  Isn't that enough?   If we
> >>> happen to admire the style of a given composers work, are we obliged
> >>> to like everything he decides to "set to music"?
> >>>
> >>> dtmk
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Nov 4, 2017 at 9:57 PM, G. Paul Padillo <
> [log in to unmask]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I have to wonder what Mr. Wilson finds "unattractive" about the score
> of
> >>>> Sweeney Todd, but
> >>>> assume he would probably not find the rest of Mr. Sondheim's ouevre
> to be
> >>>> to his liking
> >>>> either, as the composer has a style that, to these ears at least, is
> >>>> instantly recognizable and
> >>>> unique in the world of musical theatre.
> >>>>
> >>>> When asked I frequently cite Sweeney as my favorite musical, although
> it
> >>>> sort of occupies a
> >>>> short list along with Gypsy, South Pacific and Oklahoma.
> >>>>
> >>>> I can't think of a Sondheim show that I'm not a fan of - some, of
> course,
> >>>> stronger than
> >>>> others, but ALL with wonderful songs - e.g., "Anyone Can Whistle,"
> anyone?
> >>>>
> >>>> p.
> >>>>
> >>>> * * * * * * *
> >>>>
> >>>> From:   Richard Maynard Wilson <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>> Reply-To:       Richard Maynard Wilson <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>> Date:   Sat, 4 Nov 2017 20:36:08 -0400
> >>>> Content-Type:   text/plain
> >>>> Parts/Attachments:
> >>>> Parts/Attachments
> >>>> text/plain (19 lines)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I saw Sweeney Todd in 1980 during its first national tour at the
> Kennedy
> >>>> Center in DC. Memories are rather vague, but I don't recall liking it
> much.
> >>>>
> >>>> Are all Sondheim's works this unattractive?
> >>>>
> >>>> RMW
> >>>>
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