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Subject: Re: OPERA-L Digest - 20 Oct 2017 to 21 Oct 2017 - Special issue (#2017-1026)
From: Gene Bowen <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:[log in to unmask]
Date:Sat, 21 Oct 2017 19:58:51 -0400
Content-Type:text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
Parts/Attachments

text/plain (671 lines)


Tiefland -
Does anyone have any experience with this work?  Sarasota Opera is mounting
it in 2018.

On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 3:34 PM, OPERA-L automatic digest system <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> There are 9 messages totalling 564 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics in this special issue:
>
>   1. Corelli and diminuendi (was Celeste Aida etc) (3)
>   2. "Celeste Aida" High Note Compilation (4)
>   3. Krauss 1953 Bayreuth Ring - Which Release? (2)
>
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> Date:    Sat, 21 Oct 2017 14:00:56 +0000
> From:    Bob Rideout <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Corelli and diminuendi (was Celeste Aida etc)
>
>  Franco Corelli did have the most ravishing and technically secure
> diminuendo I ever heard from a male throat, but its best example
> in my exprience was in "E lucevan le stelle", which is magnificent
> on record but was even more stunning in the theater. I saw him in
> the role at least a half dozen times and it never failed to bring gasps
> from a large segment of the audience.
>
> To be able to do that, after pulling off the greatest "Vittoria, vittoria"
> imaginable, left me and many others speechless. His was an imperfect
> talent but his best was the most thrilling I ever heard.
>
> Bob
>
> **********************************************
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sat, 21 Oct 2017 10:11:54 -0400
> From:    william kasimer <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "Celeste Aida" High Note Compilation
>
> On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 21:07:52 -0400, daaaac <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> >An extremely knowledgeable friend about all things vocal once said to me=
> : pianissimo is not=20
> a dynamic; it's a color.
>
> That reminds me of an instruction that Robert Page gave the Pittsburgh Me=
> ndelssohn choir=20
> sopranos, during a rehearsal of the Verdi Requiem - "Think pianissimo, bu=
> t sing it mezzo-
> forte".
>
> Bill
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sat, 21 Oct 2017 07:59:29 -0700
> From:    Max Paley <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "Celeste Aida" High Note Compilation
>
> A different opinion was something I heard Janet Baker (whose piano singing
> I=
>  found spectacularly beautiful) say: =93To sing pianissimo you have to
> shout=
>  - very softly.=94
>
> Max Paley
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Oct 21, 2017, at 07:11, william kasimer <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >=20
> >> On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 21:07:52 -0400, daaaac <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >>=20
> >> An extremely knowledgeable friend about all things vocal once said to
> me:=
>  pianissimo is not=20
> > a dynamic; it's a color.
> >=20
> > That reminds me of an instruction that Robert Page gave the Pittsburgh
> Men=
> delssohn choir=20
> > sopranos, during a rehearsal of the Verdi Requiem - "Think pianissimo,
> but=
>  sing it mezzo-
> > forte".
> >=20
> > Bill
> >=20
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sat, 21 Oct 2017 18:20:13 +0300
> From:    Robert Cardinalli <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "Celeste Aida" High Note Compilation
>
> Max - I am so glad to see another aficionado of Janet Baker on this list.
> She is rarely, if ever, mentioned, and yet, in my opinion, her art elevated
> her to a singularly high position among post WWII singers.
>
> Robert Cardinalli
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion of opera and related issues
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Max Paley
> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2017 5:59 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: "Celeste Aida" High Note Compilation
>
> A different opinion was something I heard Janet Baker (whose piano singing
> I
> found spectacularly beautiful) say: "To sing pianissimo you have to shout -
> very softly."
>
> Max Paley
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Oct 21, 2017, at 07:11, william kasimer <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 21:07:52 -0400, daaaac <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> An extremely knowledgeable friend about all things vocal once said to
> >> me: pianissimo is not
> > a dynamic; it's a color.
> >
> > That reminds me of an instruction that Robert Page gave the Pittsburgh
> > Mendelssohn choir sopranos, during a rehearsal of the Verdi Requiem -
> > "Think pianissimo, but sing it mezzo- forte".
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > **********************************************
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sat, 21 Oct 2017 09:52:26 -0700
> From:    Donald Levine <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "Celeste Aida" High Note Compilation
>
> Jose Soler - tenor from Uruguay.  He was the Chenier on Tebaldi's first
> recording of the opera on Cetra.  He was highly regarded in South America
> in the 50's.
>
> BTW, let me second Bob's assessment of Franco Corelli.  At his best the
> most thrilling tenor I ever heard live.  When he was on, the sound, the
> ring, the security of that voice was absolutely jaw dropping.  And as Bob
> says, his ability to sing a dimenuendo, piano, and swell the tone was
> unmatched by any of his contemporaries or any since.  For about a decade
> and half, he had amazing technical control over his instrument allayed with
> that bronze sound.  He was a spinto, it wasn't the tenore di forza of Del
> Monaco or Vickers, but still the most viscerally thrilling tenor I ever
> heard.
>
> Donald Il razaggo del West
>
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 5:57 PM, Idia Legray <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > This was such fun.  I just love this stuff.  I didn't cheat either.
> > Funniest part is that there were no real surprises as to who my 5
> favorites
> > were. (Of course Neil Shicoff wasn't included -- nor Pavarotti)
> > Caruso/Corelli/Lanza/Pertile/Merli(surprise!)
> > Also rans: Bjoerling/Campora
> > Now who the heck was Jose (off key by a country mile) Soler?
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sat, 21 Oct 2017 13:18:09 -0400
> From:    Christopher Weimer <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Krauss 1953 Bayreuth Ring - Which Release?
>
> Which version do the group's Wagnerites favor of the 1953 Bayreuth Ring
> under Krauss?  Archipel?  Opera d'Oro?  Orfeo?  Pristine?  Pros/cons?
>
> Thank you!
>
> Christopher Weimer
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sat, 21 Oct 2017 14:05:10 -0500
> From:    Les Mitnick <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Corelli and diminuendi (was Celeste Aida etc)
>
> Must agree with Bob Rideout here.  Franco Corelli may have been imperfect
> (in that he wasn't a truly complete and finished artist), but he had vocal
> equipment that was twenty-four karat gold.  Of course his looks didn't
> hurt, but he was so much more.  I heard him do a really long diminuendo at
> the end of his Romeo et Juliet performance from Philly in 1964 and I
> couldn't believe what I was hearing.  Also, his diminuendo at the end of
> the "Celeste Aida" (posted here yesterday) was almost as spectacular.
> Corelli generated a tremendous amount of excitement, and the molten Italian
> lava of a voice had a take-no-prisoners quality to it that to this day
> sends shivers up my spine.
>     I must say, however, that I'm sorry that Jonas Kaufmann's superb high
> B flat diminuendo at the end of HIS "Celeste Aida" wasn't included in the
> lineup yesterday.  I've never heard any tenor execute such an exquisite
> diminuendo on that B flat before.  I was also surprised at how many of the
> tenors sounded so blatantly flat on the F leading up to the B flat, which
> they just took forte like all the others save for Corelli and Kaufmann.
>     On a personal level, I've never especially liked this particular tenor
> aria from the first time I heard it as a teenager.  I haven't changed my
> mind.  I find it surprisingly unattractive and most of the time the tenor
> sounds like he's bellowing.  What has made this aria so prized is beyond my
> comprehension.
>
> > On October 21, 2017 at 9:00 AM Bob Rideout <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >  Franco Corelli did have the most ravishing and technically secure
> > diminuendo I ever heard from a male throat, but its best example
> > in my exprience was in "E lucevan le stelle", which is magnificent
> > on record but was even more stunning in the theater. I saw him in
> > the role at least a half dozen times and it never failed to bring gasps
> > from a large segment of the audience.
> >
> > To be able to do that, after pulling off the greatest "Vittoria,
> vittoria"
> > imaginable, left me and many others speechless. His was an imperfect
> > talent but his best was the most thrilling I ever heard.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > **********************************************
> > OPERA-L on Facebook:
> > http://www.facebook.com/groups/25703098721/
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> --------------
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>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sat, 21 Oct 2017 15:19:44 -0400
> From:    "Max D. Winter" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Krauss 1953 Bayreuth Ring - Which Release?
>
> Christopher Weimer wrote:
>
> "Which version do the group's Wagnerites favor of the 1953 Bayreuth Ring
> under Krauss?  Archipel?  Opera d'Oro?  Orfeo?  Pristine?  Pros/cons?"
>
> Both the Orfeo and the Pristine versions (I have both) are excellent, if =
> a bit different.=20=20
> Orfeo's is a "straight" mono sound, very clear and with good presence, al=
> most like a studio=20
> mono recording from that time.  Pristine applies what it calls "ambient s=
> tereo" to the=20
> recording, which is not as artificial as it sounds; it is not true stereo=
>  but gives the=20
> impression of stereo by spreading the sound over two speakers in a stereo=
>  channel effect.=20=20
> (Completely different from the awful "enhanced stereo" recordings that ca=
> me out on Everest=20
> in the '60s.)  It does open up the sound somewhat, IMO, and I like it.  B=
> ut you should listen=20
> to a sample first before buying.  (Pristine offers the recording in mono =
> as well; I have not=20
> heard it.)  You can hear an extended sound sample of the ambient stereo v=
> ersion here (the=20
> Dawn duet and Rhine Journey from Gotterdammerung):
>
> https://www.pristineclassical.com/collections/artist-clemens-krauss/produ=
> cts/pabx004
>
> I have not heard the Opera d'Oro or Archipel editions, but based on my ex=
> perience with=20
> those two labels, I would avoid them, the former in particular.  (Yes, Op=
> era d'Oro is cheap,=20
> but frequently you get what you pay for.)  Neither the Orfeo nor the Pris=
> tine are cheap.  But=20
> as this is one of the greatest Ring cycles available on disc, IMO it is w=
> orth getting the best.=20=20
> This is a Ring to live with.  Depending on your sonic tastes, you can't g=
> o wrong with either=20
> the Orfeo or the Pristine.=20
>
> (Another feature of the Orfeo is that it is a commercially produced CD se=
> t, rather than a=20
> download, if that matters to you.
>
> MDW=20=20
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sat, 21 Oct 2017 19:34:15 +0000
> From:    tom ponti <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Corelli and diminuendi (was Celeste Aida etc)
>
> Celeste Aida is sort of the O Patria Mia for tenors, especially in that
> com=
> es near the beginning of the opera. The best version I ever heard live was
> =
> Bergonzi a week or two before the 67(?) broadcast. That night he nailed
> the=
>  final soft high note, which is why I felt so sorry for him on the
> broadcas=
> t. The amazing thing about the note, that day, was that he held on to the
> n=
> ote until it came out right. Most tenors, I think, would have let it go
> whe=
> n it came out so poorly, but Carlo was determined to get it right. For me,
> =
> Celeste Aida is a great tenor aria, difficult as it is to sing properly.
> R=
> itorna Vincitor is no walk in the park either-LOL!
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Discussion of opera and related issues <[log in to unmask]>
> o=
> n behalf of Les Mitnick <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Saturday, October 21, 2017 3:05 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [OPERA-L] Corelli and diminuendi (was Celeste Aida etc)
>
> Must agree with Bob Rideout here.  Franco Corelli may have been imperfect
> (=
> in that he wasn't a truly complete and finished artist), but he had vocal
> e=
> quipment that was twenty-four karat gold.  Of course his looks didn't
> hurt,=
>  but he was so much more.  I heard him do a really long diminuendo at the
> e=
> nd of his Romeo et Juliet performance from Philly in 1964 and I couldn't
> be=
> lieve what I was hearing.  Also, his diminuendo at the end of the "Celeste
> =
> Aida" (posted here yesterday) was almost as spectacular.  Corelli
> generated=
>  a tremendous amount of excitement, and the molten Italian lava of a voice
> =
> had a take-no-prisoners quality to it that to this day sends shivers up my
> =
> spine.
>     I must say, however, that I'm sorry that Jonas Kaufmann's superb high
> B=
>  flat diminuendo at the end of HIS "Celeste Aida" wasn't included in the
> li=
> neup yesterday.  I've never heard any tenor execute such an exquisite
> dimin=
> uendo on that B flat before.  I was also surprised at how many of the
> tenor=
> s sounded so blatantly flat on the F leading up to the B flat, which they
> j=
> ust took forte like all the others save for Corelli and Kaufmann.
>     On a personal level, I've never especially liked this particular tenor
> =
> aria from the first time I heard it as a teenager.  I haven't changed my
> mi=
> nd.  I find it surprisingly unattractive and most of the time the tenor
> sou=
> nds like he's bellowing.  What has made this aria so prized is beyond my
> co=
> mprehension.
>
> > On October 21, 2017 at 9:00 AM Bob Rideout <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >  Franco Corelli did have the most ravishing and technically secure
> > diminuendo I ever heard from a male throat, but its best example
> > in my exprience was in "E lucevan le stelle", which is magnificent
> > on record but was even more stunning in the theater. I saw him in
> > the role at least a half dozen times and it never failed to bring gasps
> > from a large segment of the audience.
> >
> > To be able to do that, after pulling off the greatest "Vittoria,
> vittoria=
> "
> > imaginable, left me and many others speechless. His was an imperfect
> > talent but his best was the most thrilling I ever heard.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > **********************************************
> > OPERA-L on Facebook:
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