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Subject: Fwd: OPERAS THAT HAVE CAST MEMBERS THAT ARE SINGERS?
From: donald kane <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:donald kane <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Thu, 31 Aug 2017 00:09:44 -0400
Content-Type:text/plain
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: donald kane <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: OPERAS THAT HAVE CAST MEMBERS THAT ARE SINGERS?
To: Jon Goldberg <[log in to unmask]>
Cc: Opera-L <[log in to unmask]>


"Anyone who sings a drinking song'?  I don't think so.  Every drunk who
grabs
a mike in a bar is not a singer.

Stolzing and Beckmesser were mentioned earlier this morning;
perhaps David should have been as well.

Lessons in semantics are not going to change the subtle difference
between a singer and a horny guy with a title or not, who serenades
a lady in a window.

Manrico is a singer (trovatore), whether he sings or cries,  but all those
gypsies battering anvils are - just gypsies  . . . .

The soldiers in Faust sing lustily, so does Mephistopheles, but none of
them are singers.

IN CAPRICCIO, Strauss's  "Conversation Piece For Music in One Act",  there
are an Italian soprano and tenor who are given lots of cake to eat, but
nothing at all to sing.

Nobody's going to nominate Nanki Poo, so I will; he's my favorite.


dtmk













On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 12:14 PM, Jon Goldberg <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Well, I would say that "about" is maybe the wrong word to use from the
> get-go, but I
> think we can feel free to interpret that "about" somewhat liberally, to
> include operas that
> include floods and related incidents. I would add the obviously menacing
> coastal storm in
> Peter Grimes, and also Mahagonny for the hurricane that threatens the city
> but ultimately
> passes by it.
>
> As for "don't they all sing?" - the defining term we should use is
> "diegetic" singing - in
> this case meaning *characters* who actually sing, as opposed to the
> overall conceit of a
> cast singing the score of the opera.
>
> The question here is whether we're only meant to include "professional"
> singers (such as
> Tosca) or including any characters who sing - Magda, for instance, who I
> assume is not a
> *singer* singer, but who does indeed diegetically sing what has turned out
> to be the most
> famous melody in the opera.
>
> I'm including some of both:
>
> I don't think Meistersinger has been mentioned yet, so now it has. ;-)
> Tannhauser, in particular for the contest song that seals his fate.
> Anyone who provides a serenade - Don Giovanni, Almaviva, Alfredo (the end
> of Act I of
> Traviata), Alfred (Fledermaus), Turriddu, Beppe (as Arlecchino), even
> Mephistopheles...
> Anyone who sings a drinking song - in Otello, Macbeth, Traviata,
> Cavalleria, etc
> Carmen, with her song/dance/castanet entertainment for Jose.
> Eboli's "Veil Song."
> Cherubino singing "Voi Che Sapete."
> The music lessons in Barbiere and Fille Du Regiment.
> Rosalinde as the Hungarian Countess singing the Czardas.
>
> Stella in Hoffmann doesn't always sing, depending on the version
> presented, but she is of
> course a singer.
>
> One for debate - is the Commedia performance in Pagliacci literally sung?
> Or is it a
> spoken performance that we hear in musical terms as part of the opera?
> (Likewise, is
> Canio's "Un grande spettacolo" to the crowd at the beginning of the opera
> actually sung,
> or do we just *hear* it as such?
>
> In the case of Ariadne Auf Naxos, I think it's clear that the commedia
> characters ARE
> singers, in addition to the performers in the opera itself. (Also, has
> anyone ever noticed
> that we never really find out who the 3 Nymphs are? They don't get
> featured in the
> Prologue as the others do - we meet the Prima Donna and the Tenor, but not
> the others.)
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, 30 Aug 2017 00:41:40 -0400, donald kane <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> >We actually had that one several months ago, something like:
> >"Operas That Feature Characters Who Sing".  There aren't as many
> >as you might assume, and you'd be surprised at the number of "but
> >don't they all sing?" responses there were.
> >
> >This time, the most popular answer is the incident of the Rhine
> >overflowing its banks at the end of you know what, but I insist
> >that's all it is: an incident, not what the opera is '"about".
> >
> >dtmk
> >
> >On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 12:00 AM, RAYMOND GOUIN <[log in to unmask]>
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Now that we have reached the level of "operas that have floods?"  how
> >> about it's companion piece, the above.
> >>
> >>
> >> Really, this type of question makes the Met's opera quiz look like the
> >> oral exam for a PhD.
> >>
> >>
> >> Ray Gouin
> >>
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