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Subject: Re: Tebaldi Sings Callas (was Re: Tebaldi's (in)famous 1963 'Adriana')
From: tom ponti <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:tom ponti <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Wed, 16 Aug 2017 23:56:36 +0000
Content-Type:text/plain
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I am glad that Tebaldi took so long to decide to sing Charlotte so that Crespin, a great Charlotte, did.  I can understand why Caballe would think Don Carlo was not a great opera for a soprano, despite some wonderful music for the soprano. For me the greatest Verdi operas for the soprano are: Traviata, Trovatore, Aida, Forza, Nabucco, Ballo and Otello.  Perhaps Giovann d'Arco and Luisa Miller are as well?

________________________________
From: Discussion of opera and related issues <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of walter guitian <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 7:12 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OPERA-L] Tebaldi Sings Callas (was Re: Tebaldi's (in)famous 1963 'Adriana')

In a 1994 video Tebaldi explains the story of her Werther. She says Bing have offered her Werther and at first she said No  because she thought her french would not be perfect, after she started to study it in french and then she phoned Mr Bing and said she was ready to sing Charlotte, but Bing told her "as you told me no , this week I  just promised the role to Régine Crespin". There is a Tebaldi Werther piano rehearsal , the tape is from 1971, in frenchFor once I agree with Bob, I think the RCA Cavalleria Rusticana with Bjoerling and Bastianini, recorded in Florence in september 1957, is among her finest recordings and unexpectably It is one of the recordings of her, the least people speak, perhaps because it is a role she did not sing on stage  but the voice is at its top shape in the '57  Cavalleria recording. She has the color, the right voice for Cavalleria Rusticana as for Gioconda.I am not so sure if Santuzza was for her personality, because Tebaldi's  aristocratic behaviour (ladylike)  and aulic accent  expresses perfectly sentimental  women of 35 or 40, 45 years old characters of noble lineage, as Leonora Forza, Aída, and Elisabetta di Valois that yes is a role that suits with perfection for her personality.I don't know why she did not sing Don Carlo on stage. I like so much the music of Elisabetta but I know many sopranos think Don Carlo is an opera for men, and after the bass, the baritone and the tenor, Eboli is the main woman role. Elisabetta has a big aria, one of the best Verdi arias "Tu che le vanitá"  but you have to wait until the last act.Caballé, who sang Don Carlo so many times, told that though Don Carlo is a very good opera, is not like La Forza del destino or Aida. Caballé says that La Forza and Aída are superior. According to Caballé the best of Verdi is: La Forza del destino, Aída (though La Forza orchestration is superior  in her opinion), Otello, Falstaff  and Messa di RequiemAbout Messa di Requiem, Tebaldi had to record it two times, in 1958 and the decca recording was suspended because Simionato had not learned the part,  and in 1959 another project was aborted too. Then in 1964 Decca gave her again the Messa di Requiem  but she rejected it because she said she could not longer sing it with the high ppp, as she had done in her 1950 and 1951 live recordings. Then Sutherland replaced her and the recording was done finally in 1967 with Pavarotti and Horne and Solti.
W.G.


      De: Donald Levine <[log in to unmask]>
 Para: [log in to unmask]
 Enviado: Miércoles, 16 de agosto, 2017 14:16:13
 Asunto: Re: Tebaldi Sings Callas (was Re: Tebaldi's (in)famous 1963 'Adriana')

Its always a what if... but if we are what iffing Tebaldi,  During her best
soprano yesr she should have done Elisabetta in Don Carlo, Amelia in Ballo,
Elsa, Elisabeth (these were important early roles that should have been
done outside of Italy in German), Sieglinde (this role sits low and would
have also suited her at the end of her career)  and  later on when her best
soprano days were over, I would have loved to have heard her in a number of
French and Italian roles, including one Wagnerian archtype.  The big Verdi
mezzo's would have been a fit - Amneris, Azucena and Eboli.  Of course the
already mentioned Charlotte, Carmen and Dalila, to which I would add Didon
in Troyens.  On the German side, the voice was huge and the middle and
lower range so strong, I would have loved to have heard her have a go at
Isolde.  Ortrud would have definitely been in the picture.  And, don't tell
me the Far heim at the end would have strangulated her.  Many a great
Ortrud was at the end of her tether at this point and I have no doubt
Tebaldi could have had a go at it.

But like Callas, it was not meant to be.  The Santuzza almost came to be,
her reticence caused only by the staging of that new 1970 production.  We
have to be happy with both, what we did get.

Donald

On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 9:40 AM, tom ponti <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I could never understand why Tebaldi never performed Santuzza on stage, as
> like you say, the role lies perfectly in her best vocal range. I saw a
> performance of her singing the aria on TV, and thought she sounded great,
> especially the chilling huge final note in  which she sounded like a real
> mezzo.  I did not see her Minnie, but from what I heard about it, she was
> very passionate.  I saw her in Gioconda and found her very convincing,
> especially the first season. I think she would have been dramatically fine
> as Santuzza.  Another role I thought she would have been good for her was
> Elizabeth in Don Carlo and perhaps Amneris after she gave up Aida?
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Discussion of opera and related issues <[log in to unmask]>
> on behalf of Bob Rideout <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 12:04 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [OPERA-L] Tebaldi Sings Callas (was Re: Tebaldi's (in)famous
> 1963 'Adriana')
>
> I have a very different view of post 1959 Tebaldi, and I'll leave it there,
> but it should be noted that she recorded Santuzza with Bjorling and
> Bastianini in 1858, and it is one of her finest recordings. She is just
> about perfect, vocally and though, perhaps, too ladylike in her
> interpretation, she displays dramatic instincts that were to serve her
> well in later roles like Gioconda.
>
> It is a rarely mentioned recording and should be better known.
>
> Bob
>
> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 11:49 AM Donald Levine <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > I think some of you are missing the point entirely.  The Tebaldi Festival
> > and subsequent unreleased recordings were intended as a desire for her to
> > sing and record some rep she had done gloriously in the past (Wagner),
> some
> > things she never did (Norma, Sonnambula & Nabucco) and some things that
> > would have suited her admirably at this late stage in her career.
> Tebaldi
> > had been asked to add Santuzza (she was afraid of the Met staging - too
> > many steps - she had childhood polio), Charlotte in Werther and who knows
> > maybe others.  She chose to sing all of this in Italian as she was of a
> > generation where the words mattered and she was too self conscious of her
> > French.  I understand she did speak French and I am certain French
> critics
> > would have been kindly towards her but she rightly knew that Anglo-Saxon
> > critics (American and British) probably would have torn her Italian
> > accented French to shreds).  She probably could have extended her career
> > for at least a decade had she chosen to sing mezzo-soprano roles.  I am
> > sure she would have been a vocally gorgeous Carmen, Charlotte and Dalila
> > but with the rare exception of singers like Pia Tassinari, star soprano's
> > of her generation and the one before, and especially a super-star like
> > Tebaldi, did not extend their career by singing a lower tessitura.  When
> > she could no longer be Tebaldi, she retired.  So, we are left with some
> > beautiful Bellini and I am thankful she did.  As for the Sonnambula,
> > Claudia Muzio, at the end of her career and life, left us with a tear
> > laden, heart-rending Ah non credea, and I never remember hearing anyone
> say
> > that at least that recording shouldn't have been laid down.  It is a
> > treasure.
> >
> > Finally, as for did her personality make her ideal for "such volatile
> > roles"?  I heard the Gioconda and Minnie LIVE - she was a tigress.  I am
> > certain she would have been a superb Carmen, Dalila, etc.  Even good
> girls
> > like to be slutty on occasion.
> >
> > Donald
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 8:37 PM, daaaac <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > > It was my first Liebestod and I only knew “Dolce e calmo...” for years.
> > >
> > > Donald
> > >
> > > > On Aug 15, 2017, at 8:38 PM, R Stuart <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > That Tebaldi Festival is a fascinating hodgepodge. I'm not as keen as
> > > you on the
> > > > previously unreleased bel canto excerpts, but agree that the Wagner
> is
> > > excellent.
> > > > The Carmen bits are surprisingly good (with a few classic Tebaldi
> > > cackles), and the
> > > > Dalila arias are really, really good - dramatic and sumptuous in the
> > > lower register.
> > > > The second disc, with the Bonynge-accompanied songs, is sui generis,
> > > with lots of
> > > > Tebaldi's honey on sugar middle range.
> > > >
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