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Subject: Re: Tebaldi's (in)famous 1963 'Adriana'
From: Patrick Byrne <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:[log in to unmask]
Date:Wed, 9 Aug 2017 12:08:20 -0400
Content-Type:text/plain
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Olivero is a truly unique artist. The voice was peculiar, to say the least, 
 but her use of it was like no other. I saw her in Medea on two different  
occasions. I went, thinking she could not possibly pull it off, due to the 
voice  itself and her age. I came away stunned. She was incredibly clever in 
managing  the very difficult sections. Luckily I have the recording from the 
Kansas City  performance.
 
Patrick Byrne
 
 
In a message dated 8/9/2017 9:48:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
[log in to unmask] writes:

Peter, I  don't think so.

I would suggest that Magda Olivero was at least as  famous and 
celebrated as Renata Tebaldi, both during the time in  which
Tebaldi sang the role and later. Witness the Naples 1959 revival  
with Simionato, Corelli and Bastianini. A flawed work, flawlessly  
performed! 

In later years -
I certainly found both Caballe and  Scotto far better vocally, 
and in Scotto's case, visually, at least  Tebaldi's equal.

Bob

On Tue, 8 Aug 2017 09:32:02 -0400, Peter  Bloch <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Tebaldi certainly wasn't in  good voice (for her), but it was a thrilling 
evening.  And 
listening  to tapes from those performances after all these years confirms 
that, even in  her 
damaged state, she was far and away so much better and more moving in  this 
role than 
anyone who's followed her.  And with a sterling  supporting cast no less!
>

>-----Original  Message-----
>From: OPERA-L automatic digest system  <[log in to unmask]>
>To: OPERA-L  <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Tue, Aug 8, 2017 9:13  am
>Subject: OPERA-L Digest - 8 Aug 2017 - Special issue  (#2017-774)
>
>There are 2 messages totalling 502 lines in this  issue.
>
>Topics in this special issue:
>
>  1.  DON CARLO Recordings....And Björling?
>  2. Tebaldi's (in)famous  1963  'Adriana'
>
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>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date:  Tue, 8 Aug 2017 12:59:03 +0000
>From:    Arbe Bareis  <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: DON CARLO Recordings....And  Björling?
>
>Too bad the performance is ruined by the two  prominent women. I do not 
care=
> for either Rigal or Barbieri. Milanov  and Stigani would have been 
wonderfu=
>l. I sometimes think Traubel  might have made an interesting Eboli (with O 
d=
>on fatale in a lower  key). After all, she wanted to sing Italian  
parts.=20
>
>
>      From: Juan Dzazopulos  <[log in to unmask]>
> To:  [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2017 7:26  AM
> Subject: DON CARLO Recordings....And Bj=C3=B6rling?
>   =20
>The Metropolitan Opera opened its 1950-51 season with a new  production=20
>of "Don Carlo". It did not include the Fontainebleau  scene, neither=20
>the 3rd act ballet, La  P=C3=A9r=C3=A9grina.
>The cast for the opening night (November 6, 1950)  was:
>Jussi Bj=C3=B6rling (Don Carlo); Delia Rigal (Elisabetta); Fedora  
Barbieri=
>=20
>(Eboli); Robert Merrill (Roderigo); Cesare Siepi  (Filippo); Jerome=20
>Hines (Inquisitore); Lucina Amara (Voce  Celestiale). The conductor was=20
>Fritz Stiedry.
>Later  performances included (not together): Richard Tucker (Don=20
>Carlo);  Eleanor Steber (Elisabetta); Paolo Silveri and Frank  Valentino=20
>(Roderigo); Blanche Thebom (Eboli); Hans Hotter and Nicola  Moscona=20
>(Inquisitore) and Jerome Hines (Filippo).
>
>The  opening performance was fortunately live recorded and it  was=20
>available from Myto Records (2MCD 911.35) (1995). Though 22  years old,=20
>I still consider it as one of my favourite recordings of  Don Carlo,=20
>and only followed by the 1951 Cetra commercial recording  already=20
>mentioned (Picchi, Caniglia, Stignani, Silveri, Rossi  Lemeni, Neri and=20
>Sciutti: Fernando Previtali,  conductor).
>
>Juan
>---------------
>
>
>
>
>
>El  Tue, 8 Aug 2017 04:00:51 -0500
>=C2=A0 Russ Geschke  <[log in to unmask]> escribi=C3=B3:
>
>> Because no  one else has mentioned this:=C2=A0 There is also a 2 CD=20
>>"Living  Stage" mono recording of "Don Carlo" from Lyric Opera  of=20
>>Chicago, opening night 14 October 1960, with Tucker,  Margherita=20
>>Roberti, Gobbi, Simionato, and Christoff, conducted  by Antonino=20
>>Votto.=C2=A0 The usual abridged performance  edition.=C2=A0 The sound (as 
I=
>=20
>>recall) was quite  good.=C2=A0 My copy came from either amazon.com or  
ebay.
>>=20
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vesna  Danilovic"=20
>><[log in to unmask]>
>> To:  <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2017  7:19 PM
>> Subject: Re: DON CARLO  Recordings
>>=20
>>=20
>>>I absolutely agree  with you about the Solti and Giulini studio  sets,=20
>>>Max.
>>> If not the first studio recording  (that honor goes to Santini even=20
>>>twice,
>>> no  idea why...), Solti's was surely the first *major* studio  set.=20
>>>Now that
>>> you highlight Gobbi on Santini  '54, I've never heard his Rodrigo and=20
>>>would
>>>  surely want to listen to it. I do have this second studio from  1961=20
>>>and for
>>> all the reasons we mentioned,  it's a keeper for me.
>>>
>>> Best,  Vesna
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 7:57 PM, Maxwell  Paley  <[log in to unmask]>=20
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Vesna, I also held back figuring certainly someone else would  jump=20
>>>>in. The
>>>> first one was an HMV  mono set from 1954 whose main glory, for  me,=20
>>>>was
>>>> Gobbi's  Rodrigo.
>>>>
>>>> The second was a 1961 DGG set  (one of their La Scala=20
>>>>collaborations).  I
>>>> agree about Santini's dull, flabby conducting. As you  said, the=20
>>>>stereo set
>>>> has glorious  male beauty from Bastianini and Christoff,  a=20
>>>>surprisingly good
>>>> Carlo from Labo  and a marvelous, propulsive Eboli from  young=20
>>>>Cossotto.
>>>>
>>>>  To me, Anonietta Stella is the Italian equivalent of the  German=20
>>>>soprano,
>>>> Marianne Schech.  Good voice, good size, good range held back by  an=20
>>>>overall
>>>> musical "dowdiness." Both  singers capable of lighting up with  the=20
>>>>right
>>>> role and conductor and  suddenly being stunning. Not here.
>>>>
>>>>  Vesna, as oldsters like me remember, "Don Carlo" fans had to make  
do=20
>>>>with
>>>> these (and be grateful for  the Fontainebleu scene from the DGG  
set)=20
>>>>until
>>>> the world improved with  the release of the Solti and, I think  even=20
>>>>better,
>>>> Giulini sets. But I  don't underestimate that Solti set; it was  a=20
>>>>major
>>>> upgrade and filled an  important slot.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my  iPhone
>>>>
>>>> > On Aug 7, 2017, at 16:06,  Vesna Danilovic  <[log in to unmask]>=20
>>>>wrote:
>>>>  >
>>>> > On Sat, Aug 5, 2017 at 7:12 PM, William Fiorelli  >=20
>>>><[log in to unmask]>
>>>>  > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> I have an  number of DON CARLO CDs in my collection and  recently=20
>>>>read
>>>> >> through a  discography.=C2=A0 I am not familiar with the following  
tw=
>o
>>>> recordings
>>>> >> and  am interested in your opinions.=C2=A0 Thanks!BILL
>>>> >>  DON CARLO ( 5 ACT version)=C2=A0 Santini, Labo, Christoff, Stella, 
 >=
>>=20
>>>>Cossotto,
>>>> >>  Bastianini, Vinco, 1961
>>>> >> DON CARLO ( 4 ACT  version) Santini, Filippeschi,  Christoff,=20
>>>>Stella,
>>>> >> Nicolai,  Gobbi, Neri, 1954
>>>> >
>>>>  >
>>>> > At first I was surprised that nobody replied  onlist to this query=20
>>>>> because
>>>>  > there are quite a few DON CARLO aficionados here, but then  this=20
>>>>also
>>>> shows
>>>>  > that there are probably no champions of these two sets. Both  are=20
>>>>early
>>>> > studios and one would  think they would be more than just  
souvenirs=20
>>>>from
>>>>  the
>>>> > time when this opera was not much recorded. I  think that 
Santini's=20
>>>>> boring
>>>>  > conducting on both sets and a variable cast make them both  
almost,=20
>>>>but
>>>> not
>>>>  > entirely, forgettable for some listeners.
>>>>  >
>>>> > That said, I heard only the later of these two  recordings because=20
>>>>it > was
>>>> >  the only studio recording of Bastianini's Posa, whose rich  voice=20
>>>>comes
>>>> > through with the  same brilliance as on his great live=20
>>>>performances,  and
>>>> > that alone makes this set worthwhile to get. I  would also add >=20
>>>>Christoff's
>>>> >  imposing King Philip (to my ears even better than on the  
legendary=20
>>>>'58
>>>>  live
>>>> > from ROH) and one of the better Dona Carlos on  record, Flaviano=20
>>>>Labo. I
>>>>  am
>>>> > not as familiar with Labo but he strikes me as a  true spinto 
tenor=20
>>>>and > I
>>>>  am
>>>> > frankly mystified why he didn't have a major  career. I hope 
Stella=20
>>>>did
>>>> >  better on the first set because here you can hear some  lovely=20
>>>>singing > but
>>>> > devoid  of any interpretive insight (by contrast, she is  a=20
>>>>wonderful
>>>> > Maddalena in the  film version of ANDREA CHENIER with Del  
Monaco).=20
>>>>The
>>>>  main
>>>> > liability is Santini whose routine approach to  the score often=20
>>>>borders > on
>>>> >  boredom but this is Verdi's masterpiece that is difficult  to=20
>>>>destroy.
>>>>  While
>>>> > this is I believe the first studio to include  the Fontainebleau=20
>>>>scene > (in
>>>>  > Italian) but then Santini makes many cuts elsewhere. So, if  you=20
>>>>love > this
>>>> > opera, I  think you would enjoy the great Bastianini as Posa  as=20
>>>>well as
>>>> > Labo's Don Carlo and  Christoff's Phillip.
>>>> >
>>>> > Just my  two cents. Vesna
>>>> >
>>>> >  **********************************************
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>------------------------------
>
>Date:  Tue, 8 Aug 2017 13:09:03 +0000
>From:    "Takis Pavl."  <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Tebaldi's (in)famous 1963  'Adriana'
>
>Thanks for sharing that moving moment of her return  to the MET stage.=20
>
>I'll agree with David. I've also listened  to the infamous Adriana and 
can't=
> really tell it's such a terrible  night for Tebaldi. Yes, the problems 
that=
> made her take a break after  this production are there but it's not what 
I =
>would call a dreadful  performance. The are far worse performances of 
equall=
>y great singers  in trouble and even by Tebaldi herself.
>
>I wonder if the critics  were prepared to attack this production because 
eve=
>ryone in NY hated  the idea of having Adriana staged at the MET. Funnily 
eno=
>ugh, it has  been back at the MET numerous times since Tebaldi's first 
produ=
>ction  for many of its subsequent prima donnas so I suppose Tebaldi's bet  
di=
>d work out to the MET's benefit after all.=20
>
>The  fact that Tebaldi never wobbled is down to her technique. I remember  
re=
>ading a discussion between music critics where it was noted that  all 
those =
>scratchy recordings of elderly singers who reigned supreme  the 19th 
century=
> but had almost retired when they could record  something for posterity 
show=
> that even though they had lost some of  their highest notes, the 
fundamenta=
>l technical ability of singing a  steady tone, a simple melodic phrase 
witho=
>ut holes in their scale  remained intact. The same happened with Tebaldi, 
Be=
>rgonzi, Pavarotti,  Caballe, Kraus, Freni whereas those who experienced 
wobb=
>ling problems  lost or never had that very fundamental technical  skill.
>Takis
>
>
>> >
>> >> On  Aug 7, 2017, at 4:35 PM, David Kubiak <[log in to unmask]>  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> A story firmly entrenched in  the operatic annals and well-known to 
any
>> >> serious opera  fan is Tebaldi's famously badgering Mr. Bing into  
mounti=
>ng
>> >> 'Adriana Lecouvreur' for her in 1963,  her appearing in dreadful 
voice,
>> >> withdrawing from the  production, and then leaving the stage entirely
>> for a
>>  >> year to recover.=C2=A0 I remember myself my distress at reading the  
NY
>> critics at
>> >> the time, and even her former  press manager Lanfranco Rasponi calls 
th=
>e
>> >>  incident 'a debacle', and says that 'her voice was simply in  
terrible
>> >> shape.'=C2=A0 That would be bad enough, but  iconic artists are not 
kno=
>wn for
>> >> saying negative  things about themselves, and Tebaldi is quoted 
looking
>>  back
>> >> at the period from late 1962 into 1963, 'The voice  simply became
>> heavier and
>> >> heavier, until  there was no more voice.'
>> >>
>> >> Needless  to say, as a lover of Tebaldi's voice second only to Walter
>>  Guitan,
>> >> I have always been curious about exactly what she  sounded like in 
'63.
>> The
>> >> Met=C2=A0 finally  made that possible by releasing the performance of 
2=
>/9,
>>  which I
>> >> listened to yesterday on Sirius.=C2=A0 Simply  put, I am at an utter 
lo=
>ss to
>> >> harmonize what I  was hearing with what has been said all these years.
>>  Her
>> >> middle voice was completely intact and flowed with  all the velvet 
beau=
>ty
>> >> that made her sound  unique.=C2=A0 As to the top, there was one 
occasio=
>n in
>>  Act II
>> >> where she actually pulled off one of her famous  high pianissimi (the
>> text
>> >> was 'la promessa  [something]'); otherwise the notes above the staff 
we=
>re
>>  >> indeed very loud, but completely solid and in tune. She had some  
troub=
>le
>> >> with the releases, but no worse than  Milanov did her whole 
career.=C2=
>=A0 The
>> >> duets  with Corelli I thought magnificent; there was exactly one note 
 i=
>n
>> >> 'Poveri fiori' that did strike me as frayed,  but that was it.=C2=A0 
Th=
>e
>> audience
>> >>  was most enthusiastic.=C2=A0 In short, she sounded to me more or  
less
>> exactly as
>> >> she did in her return as Mimi  the next year, which the Met broadcast 
n=
>ot
>> >> long  ago -- it's unclear to me what Ugo de Caro did for her.=C2=A0 
To  =
>my
>> ears the
>> >> real change in her sound  did not come until she decided to take up
>> 'Gioconda'.
>>  >>
>> >> (One thing that must be said, even by her  detractors, is that to her
>> last
>> >> recital, she  never, ever, wobbled, which is the single biggest 
factor  =
>in
>> >> largely keeping me out of the opera house  today.=C2=A0 Whether it's 
th=
>e
>> German
>> >>  wing (Stemme) or the Italian (Meade), audiences have become used to  
a
>> >> tremolo in soprano voices that I cannot  abide.)
>> >>
>> >> It may be that Tebaldi  really did suffer a collapse at a later
>> performance,
>>  >> but the one I heard in no way corresponded to the melodramatic  prose
>> that
>> >> has been lavished on this  incident.=C2=A0 I would be interested if 
the=
>re are
>>  any
>> >> others of us 'of a certain age' who might be able to  contribute their
>> insight.
>> >>
>>  >> Thanks.
>> >>
>> >> David  Kubiak
>> >>
>> >>  **********************************************
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>End  of OPERA-L Digest - 8 Aug 2017 - Special issue  (#2017-774)
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