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Subject: Re: Fwd: What operas have characters who sing?
From: donald kane <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:donald kane <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Mon, 1 May 2017 20:28:06 -0400
Content-Type:text/plain
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Bacchus in ARIADNE AUF NAXOS is my favorite: in the Prologue he
is an anonymous tenor engaged to sing; but in the Opera, the same tenor
bursts on to the scene as a mythical character who is not a singer.

dtmk

On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 6:32 AM, Maria Louise Augusta Helleberg <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> All the Meistersingers (plus Stolzing),
> the Italien Singer (Rosenkavalier)
> the two Italian singers (Capriccio)
> Emilia Marty
> Lulu (cabaret)
> Alfredo Traviata (amateur!)
> Triquet in Onegin
> Tannhauser (and his comrades-in-Minnesong)
> Marietta in the Tote Stadt?
> Primadonna, Bacchus and Zerbinetta in Ariadne (plus enrourage)
> Iopas in Troyens
> (and Tosca...)
>
> Maria Helleberg, Denmark
>
>
> 2017-04-29 22:18 GMT+02:00 donald kane <[log in to unmask]>:
>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: donald kane <[log in to unmask]>
>> Date: Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 10:38 AM
>> Subject: Re: Fwd: What operas have characters who sing?
>> To: Jon Goldberg <[log in to unmask]>
>> Cc: Opera-L <[log in to unmask]>
>>
>>
>> Semantic tidiness is a worthy objective, but I was looking for as brief a
>> subject line as possible.  Asking for characters " who are lawyers,
>> attorneys, solicitors,
>> and barristers" yielded a host of operatic personages who could qualify
>> for
>> none
>> of those specific professions.  It takes no expertise to be a notary or
>> consul, and
>> when it comes to mythical realms, in the RING for example, such
>> occupations
>> do not exist.
>>
>> How do you reply to the question posed regarding Andrea Chenier?   I would
>> say
>> he's a perfect example of a guy who sings all the time, but never sings
>> anything.
>>
>> dtmk
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 12:26 AM, Jon Goldberg <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > The question you asked when you started this thread is -- what operas
>> have
>> > "characters
>> > who sing" - not what operas have "characters who are singers." As you've
>> > pointed out,
>> > there is a difference - but you in fact asked the broader question.
>> >
>> > So yes, Violetta and Alfredo do sing a drinking song. That qualifies.
>> > Andres and Marie sing
>> > in Wozzeck (he sings that bit of song in the scene with Wozzeck in the
>> > field, and also in the
>> > tavern, and she sings the lullaby to her baby), and Eboli in Don Carlo
>> > (the Veil Song). Or,
>> > Varlaam singing the "Siege Of Kazan" song in Boris Godunov. And anyone
>> who
>> > sings a
>> > serenade qualifies. We can qualify that "La Donna e Mobile" is literally
>> > sung, if only
>> > because Rigoletto hears the song in the distance later on.
>> >
>> > The technical word for such singing, btw, is "diegetic." In this
>> context,
>> > it means music that
>> > is actually literally sung by the character (as opposed to the singer
>> > playing the character)
>> > as part of the plot of the opera, as opposed to the more general sung
>> > thought/dialogue
>> > that makes up operatic singing in general. The classic example of
>> diegetic
>> > singing is the
>> > Von Trapps in The Sound Of Music - most of the kids' singing, for
>> > instance, is diegetic -
>> > however, when the actress playing Liesl sings "16 Going On 17," we
>> > understand that Liesl
>> > herself is not actually singing.
>> >
>> > Sometimes it can get confusing. Except in productions of Carmen done
>> with
>> > spoken
>> > dialogue, it can be tricky to delineate that Carmen is truly *singing*
>> the
>> > Seguidille (with
>> > the quip that she's obeying Jose's command not to *speak*) - same with
>> > Antonia in
>> > Hoffmann, who sings throughout the act, sometimes diegetically,
>> sometimes
>> > not - as all
>> > the while she's being told not to sing by her father (and eventually
>> > Hoffmann), and told TO
>> > sing by Dr. Miracle. ;-)
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, 28 Apr 2017 00:01:53 -0400, donald kane <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > >---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> > >From: donald kane <[log in to unmask]>
>> > >Date: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 7:47 PM
>> > >Subject: Re: What operas have characters who sing?
>> > >To: Don <[log in to unmask]>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >The interesting thing is that, in opera, everybody sings, but that
>> doesn't
>> > >make
>> > >everybody a singer.  Tosca is decidedly "a singer" but, as such, she is
>> > >heard very little, and off stage!  Tannhauser qualifies, but I would
>> rule
>> > >out Mefistofele.
>> > >The serenaders are a problem: is Turridu a singer?  Is Musetta?  Is
>> > >Almaviva?
>> > >Rosina definitely is.  Violetta and Alfredo?  No way!  Suddenly joining
>> > >together
>> > >in praise of drink, doesn't do it.
>> > >
>> > >dtmk
>> > >
>> > >On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 7:12 PM, Don <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Not sure if this answers the question but the following are all
>> > characters
>> > >> in operas, some who are actually singers in the opera and others who
>> > sing
>> > >> serenades, drinking songs etc. in the operas.  The Italian Singer in
>> Der
>> > >> Rosenkavalier, Smeton in Anna Bolena, Il Giullare in Francesca da
>> > Rimini,
>> > >> Manrico in Il Trovatore, Walther and Beckmesser in Meistersinger,
>> > Hoffman
>> > >> in Tales of Hoffman, Mefistofele in Faust, Don Giovanni and Almaviva
>> > both
>> > >> sing serenades, Violetta, Alfredo, Silvio all sing drinking songs,
>> > >> Mefistofele in Boito's Dr. Faustus, Adele and Rosalinda in
>> Fledermaus,
>> > >> Madame Herz and Mademoiselle Silberklang in The Impresario,
>> Fiakermilli
>> > >>
>> > >> On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Don <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> Not sure if this answers the question but the following are all
>> > >>> characters in operas, some who are actually singers in the opera and
>> > others
>> > >>> who sing serenades, drinking songs etc. in the operas.  The Italian
>> > Singer
>> > >>> in Der Rosenkavalier, Smeton in Anna Bolena, Il Giullare in
>> Francesca
>> > da
>> > >>> Rimini, Manrico in Il Trovatore, Walther and Beckmesser in
>> > Meistersinger,
>> > >>> Hoffman in Tales of Hoffman, Mefistofele in Faust, Don Giovanni and
>> > >>> Almaviva both sing serenades, Violetta, Alfredo, Silvio all sing
>> > drinking
>> > >>> songs, Mefistofele in Boito's Dr. Faustus, Adele and Rosalinda in
>> > >>> Fledermaus, Madame Herz and Mademoiselle Silberklang in The
>> Impresario,
>> > >>> Fiakermilli
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 2:32 PM, Vesna Danilovic <
>> [log in to unmask]>
>> > >>> wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>>> On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 3:12 PM, Wendell Eatherly <
>> > >>>> [log in to unmask]
>> > >>>> > wrote:
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> > Floria Tosca
>> > >>>> > Emilia Marty (and Kristina in the same opera)
>> > >>>> > Chapelou in "Le postillon de Lonjumeau"
>> > >>>> > and of course, several characters in "Der Schauspieldirektor"
>> > >>>> >
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> To these and a few others already mentioned in the thread on a
>> > different
>> > >>>> subject (lawyers), let me add:
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> Musetta in LA BOHEME
>> > >>>> La Gioconda (she is a street singer)
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> and the most divine "singer" of all: Orpheus.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> Vesna
>> > >>>>
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