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Subject: Re: Fwd: What operas have characters who sing?
From: donald kane <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:donald kane <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Fri, 28 Apr 2017 10:38:26 -0400
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Semantic tidiness is a worthy objective, but I was looking for as brief a
subject line as possible.  Asking for characters " who are lawyers,
attorneys, solicitors,
and barristers" yielded a host of operatic personages who could qualify for
none
of those specific professions.  It takes no expertise to be a notary or
consul, and
when it comes to mythical realms, in the RING for example, such occupations
do not exist.

How do you reply to the question posed regarding Andrea Chenier?   I would
say
he's a perfect example of a guy who sings all the time, but never sings
anything.

dtmk

On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 12:26 AM, Jon Goldberg <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> The question you asked when you started this thread is -- what operas have
> "characters
> who sing" - not what operas have "characters who are singers." As you've
> pointed out,
> there is a difference - but you in fact asked the broader question.
>
> So yes, Violetta and Alfredo do sing a drinking song. That qualifies.
> Andres and Marie sing
> in Wozzeck (he sings that bit of song in the scene with Wozzeck in the
> field, and also in the
> tavern, and she sings the lullaby to her baby), and Eboli in Don Carlo
> (the Veil Song). Or,
> Varlaam singing the "Siege Of Kazan" song in Boris Godunov. And anyone who
> sings a
> serenade qualifies. We can qualify that "La Donna e Mobile" is literally
> sung, if only
> because Rigoletto hears the song in the distance later on.
>
> The technical word for such singing, btw, is "diegetic." In this context,
> it means music that
> is actually literally sung by the character (as opposed to the singer
> playing the character)
> as part of the plot of the opera, as opposed to the more general sung
> thought/dialogue
> that makes up operatic singing in general. The classic example of diegetic
> singing is the
> Von Trapps in The Sound Of Music - most of the kids' singing, for
> instance, is diegetic -
> however, when the actress playing Liesl sings "16 Going On 17," we
> understand that Liesl
> herself is not actually singing.
>
> Sometimes it can get confusing. Except in productions of Carmen done with
> spoken
> dialogue, it can be tricky to delineate that Carmen is truly *singing* the
> Seguidille (with
> the quip that she's obeying Jose's command not to *speak*) - same with
> Antonia in
> Hoffmann, who sings throughout the act, sometimes diegetically, sometimes
> not - as all
> the while she's being told not to sing by her father (and eventually
> Hoffmann), and told TO
> sing by Dr. Miracle. ;-)
>
>
> On Fri, 28 Apr 2017 00:01:53 -0400, donald kane <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> >---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >From: donald kane <[log in to unmask]>
> >Date: Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 7:47 PM
> >Subject: Re: What operas have characters who sing?
> >To: Don <[log in to unmask]>
> >
> >
> >The interesting thing is that, in opera, everybody sings, but that doesn't
> >make
> >everybody a singer.  Tosca is decidedly "a singer" but, as such, she is
> >heard very little, and off stage!  Tannhauser qualifies, but I would rule
> >out Mefistofele.
> >The serenaders are a problem: is Turridu a singer?  Is Musetta?  Is
> >Almaviva?
> >Rosina definitely is.  Violetta and Alfredo?  No way!  Suddenly joining
> >together
> >in praise of drink, doesn't do it.
> >
> >dtmk
> >
> >On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 7:12 PM, Don <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> >> Not sure if this answers the question but the following are all
> characters
> >> in operas, some who are actually singers in the opera and others who
> sing
> >> serenades, drinking songs etc. in the operas.  The Italian Singer in Der
> >> Rosenkavalier, Smeton in Anna Bolena, Il Giullare in Francesca da
> Rimini,
> >> Manrico in Il Trovatore, Walther and Beckmesser in Meistersinger,
> Hoffman
> >> in Tales of Hoffman, Mefistofele in Faust, Don Giovanni and Almaviva
> both
> >> sing serenades, Violetta, Alfredo, Silvio all sing drinking songs,
> >> Mefistofele in Boito's Dr. Faustus, Adele and Rosalinda in Fledermaus,
> >> Madame Herz and Mademoiselle Silberklang in The Impresario, Fiakermilli
> >>
> >> On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 3:56 PM, Don <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Not sure if this answers the question but the following are all
> >>> characters in operas, some who are actually singers in the opera and
> others
> >>> who sing serenades, drinking songs etc. in the operas.  The Italian
> Singer
> >>> in Der Rosenkavalier, Smeton in Anna Bolena, Il Giullare in Francesca
> da
> >>> Rimini, Manrico in Il Trovatore, Walther and Beckmesser in
> Meistersinger,
> >>> Hoffman in Tales of Hoffman, Mefistofele in Faust, Don Giovanni and
> >>> Almaviva both sing serenades, Violetta, Alfredo, Silvio all sing
> drinking
> >>> songs, Mefistofele in Boito's Dr. Faustus, Adele and Rosalinda in
> >>> Fledermaus, Madame Herz and Mademoiselle Silberklang in The Impresario,
> >>> Fiakermilli
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 2:32 PM, Vesna Danilovic <[log in to unmask]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 3:12 PM, Wendell Eatherly <
> >>>> [log in to unmask]
> >>>> > wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> > Floria Tosca
> >>>> > Emilia Marty (and Kristina in the same opera)
> >>>> > Chapelou in "Le postillon de Lonjumeau"
> >>>> > and of course, several characters in "Der Schauspieldirektor"
> >>>> >
> >>>>
> >>>> To these and a few others already mentioned in the thread on a
> different
> >>>> subject (lawyers), let me add:
> >>>>
> >>>> Musetta in LA BOHEME
> >>>> La Gioconda (she is a street singer)
> >>>>
> >>>> and the most divine "singer" of all: Orpheus.
> >>>>
> >>>> Vesna
> >>>>
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> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >>
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