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Subject: Re: Christa Ludwig and Vishnevskaya
From: Maxwell Paley <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Maxwell Paley <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Sun, 2 Apr 2017 17:14:28 +0200
Content-Type:text/plain
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text/plain (690 lines)


Loved Vishnevskaya, hated Schonberg.

Max Paley

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 2, 2017, at 16:49, Bob Rideout <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> Hi Estelle
> 
> That Aida was quite something. Despite Schonberg's dislike of
> Vishnevskaya, she had an enormous success. I remember three
> things about her performance - she was a stage creature of great
> beauty; her pianissimi were incredible and her Triumphal Scene
> was the equal of Nilsson and Leonie in sheer volume, but far more
> expressive and idiomatic than either of the others. She was, in a
> word, phenomenal.
> 
> Vickers sang beautifully, but it wasn't very Italian, either visually or
> vocally, and Mignon Dunn was fine until the Judgment Scene, which
> was a screamfest, the tessitura among the most uncomfortable
> vocal fits in my experience. If you don't have an easy Ab, A and
> especially Bb, you cannot sing Amneris. A few years later I heard her
> sing a magnificent Dalila. Roles do matter!
> 
> Bob
> 
>> On Sunday, April 2, 2017, Estelle Gilson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, Ludwig and Winterreise at the MET with Levine
>> 
>> And a comment on Vishnevskaya  -  She sang Aida at the MET in 1961.   Jon
>> Vickers  was Rhadames.   Mignon Dunn was Amneris.   I had a memorable
>> experience.   .  Harold Schonberg  didn't like Vishnevskaya' - ,
>> particularly her vocal production .  He devoted three paragraphs to
>> describing them and then turned to his disappointment in Vickers' Radames -
>> his first at the MET.  .
>> ,
>> Ah, for  the good old days !
>> 
>> Estelle
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> At 04:20 PM 4/1/2017, you wrote:
>> 
>>> It is a great opera.  I can't believe we waited 10 years for this revival.
>>> I seem to remember it every few seasons back in the 60's, 70's and 80's.
>>> As for Ludwig, I was at that one and only Leonore and I still remember it
>>> as one of the greatest performances of any opera and role ever.  Period.
>>> Ludwig can be an old biddy, curmudgeon, whatever, I love her.  She was one
>>> of the greatest artists I ever heard and a glorious voice to boot.  I ran
>>> to all of her recitals.  Two others whose recitals I never missed were
>>> Galina Vishnevskaya (Slava was always the accompanist) and Regine Crespin.
>>> 
>>> Donald
>>> 
>>>> On Sat, Apr 1, 2017 at 1:47 PM, Bob Rideout <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Nina
>>>> 
>>>> I have several great, great memores, including her one Met
>>>> Fidelio, and the Dyer's Wife, but my fondest is also from the
>>>> Musikverein.
>>>> 
>>>> A Sunday morning Brahms concert with her and Karl Bohm featured
>>>> the Haydn Variations, the Alto Rhapsody, which reduced me to sobs,
>>>> and the Third Symphony. It was around 1975, a magnificent
>>>> concert, and the Alto Rhapsody remains my favorite among all the
>>>> music I heard her perform. Oh, and by the way, it was the Vienna
>>>> Philharmonic, of course. I was not the only one who "lost it". I saw
>>>> a lot of handkerchiefs that morning
>>>> 
>>>> Many years later at her Carnegie Farewell, I again made a fool of
>>>> myself when she sang "Ich grolle Nicht". She was somethin'.
>>>> 
>>>> Speaking of Fidelio, I enjoyed today's Met performance, It is a great
>>>> opera, and it was well served.
>>>> 
>>>> Bob
>>>> 
>>>> On Saturday, April 1, 2017, Nina Gettler <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I have no doubt that Christa Ludwig loved much of the music she sang.
>>> But
>>>>> I heard her say many times that she resented having to subordinate her
>>>> life
>>>>> to singing and that, if she had it to do over again, she would never
>>>> choose
>>>>> a career as a singer.  Because she was extremely disciplined, she went
>>>> home
>>>>> and had a cup of tea when she would have liked to go out with her
>>>> friends.
>>>>> She invented an entire "whistling" language to communicate with her
>>> son
>>>> on
>>>>> days that she was singing because she did not speak on those days. Her
>>>>> singing always came first.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Perhaps she was pushed into a singing career because both of her
>>> parents
>>>>> were singers and this is not something that she chose for herself.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm certainly glad that she did have a singing career. If I had to
>>> give
>>>> up
>>>>> every single memory of a musical event that I have attended but one,
>>> it
>>>>> would be the evening in 1978 or 1979 when she sang "Die Winterreise"
>>> for
>>>>> the first time at the Musikverein in Vienna.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Nina Gettler
>>>>> Graz, Austria
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 4/1/2017 10:41 AM, OPERA-L automatic digest system wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There are 5 messages totalling 518 lines in this issue.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Topics in this special issue:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   1. Respighi
>>>>>>   2. Comforting Quotes (2)
>>>>>>   3. I was not kidding you.
>>>>>>   4. Grigolo last nigh In "Hofmann" L.A. Opera
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ----------
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Date:    Sat, 1 Apr 2017 11:59:40 -0400
>>>>>> From:    Ariane Csonka <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> Subject: Respighi
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Has anyone seen the NYC Opera La Campana Sommersa?  I loved it,
>>>>>> especially M=
>>>>>> ichael Chioldi, the Pan satyr and the projections.
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Date:    Sat, 1 Apr 2017 12:12:01 -0400
>>>>>> From:    Jon Goldberg <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Comforting Quotes
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hogwash.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Performing is a JOB, and a damned hard one. Yes, of course, most
>>>> performe=
>>>>>> rs are doing=20
>>>>>> what they love, and loving what they do (me included), but even so,
>>>> it's =
>>>>>> not always 100%=20
>>>>>> bliss, by far. I do love my work, and do feel very lucky to be a
>>>> performe=
>>>>>> r and music=20
>>>>>> director and coach, etc. But I can't tell you how many moments in my
>>>> life=
>>>>>>  are also spent=20
>>>>>> reminding myself of that because I'm NOT loving the music I'm working
>>>> on =
>>>>>> or the people=20
>>>>>> I'm working with, or I'm tired of the long rehearsal/teaching days,
>>> or
>>>> I =
>>>>>> really don't feel like=20
>>>>>> having to go do the show that day after doing it for months and
>>> months,
>>>> e=
>>>>>> tc.=20
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ludwig's job is to make you believe that she loves what she is
>>> singing,
>>>> a=
>>>>>> nd that she is=20
>>>>>> always connected emotionally 100% to the music, etc. Ludwig did her
>>> job
>>>> e=
>>>>>> xtremely well.=20
>>>>>> And yes, of course, most performers will not go out on a limb to say
>>>> that=
>>>>>>  they dislike a=20
>>>>>> particular role, or composer, or colleague, etc, because they do want
>>>> to =
>>>>>> make things seem=20
>>>>>> like it's all for the "art" - but I can guarantee you that no
>>> performer
>>>> l=
>>>>>> oves everything they=20
>>>>>> do. It''s just that we learn to keep the grumbling out of the public
>>>> eye =
>>>>>> when possible. A=20
>>>>>> renowned singer certainly doesn't want to telegraph that the music
>>>> she's =
>>>>>> singing says=20
>>>>>> nothing to her - logic dictates that an audience wouldn't put up with
>>>> tha=
>>>>>> t attitude for very=20
>>>>>> long. You want the job, you want the fame, you sing the roles. And
>>>> hopefu=
>>>>>> lly you like them,=20
>>>>>> but too bad if you don't.=20
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The result one sees and hears is the "art." And yes, when a performer
>>>> is =
>>>>>> truly connected to=20
>>>>>> what they're doing, and truly expressing from their soul, it's an
>>>> amazing=
>>>>>>  feeling. But the=20
>>>>>> skill - the training - the job - of a consummate performer is to
>>> create
>>>> t=
>>>>>> hat experience for=20
>>>>>> the audience even when it's simply not true.=20
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sometimes we need to stop kvelling over the grand illusions we have
>>> for
>>>> "=
>>>>>> Great Operatic=20
>>>>>> Artists" (or performers in any of the arts) and remember that
>>> sometimes
>>>> i=
>>>>>> t's really just=20
>>>>>> about the paycheck, and that part of the hard work performers do is
>>> to
>>>> ma=
>>>>>> ke it seem all=20
>>>>>> sunshine and roses. I'd surely like to think that Ludwig *did* enjoy
>>>> much=
>>>>>>  of what she sang=20
>>>>>> -but the idea that she made you think she did even if she didn't -
>>>> THAT's=
>>>>>>  the ultimate=20
>>>>>> artistry she had. ;-)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sat, 1 Apr 2017 12:41:31 +0000, tom ponti <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> wrote:=
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I find it hard to believe that a great Operatic Artist like Christa
>>>> Ludw=
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ig would have spent=20
>>>>>> many years preparing for, and many more performing in an art form she
>>>> had=
>>>>>>  little regard=20
>>>>>> for. Her supposed quote is total nonsense and I do not believe she
>>> ever
>>>> m=
>>>>>> ade such a=20
>>>>>> stupid statement.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> **********************************************
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Date:    Sat, 1 Apr 2017 13:06:12 -0400
>>>>>> From:    donald kane <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Comforting Quotes
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I never ignore GCR, because I like what he does.  An automatic delete
>>>> only
>>>>>> means that you don't know or care what you're missing.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> We can all "say what we like" at any age.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Christa Ludwig was a thorough musician and singer, not primarily an
>>>>>> "Operatic
>>>>>> Artist", as Mr.Ponti, labels her. It is wrong to malign a singer in
>>> her
>>>>>> nineties if she prefers to be remembered as a distinguished
>>> interpreter
>>>> of
>>>>>> Brahms, Mahler, Schubert and Strauss lieder, rather than the superb
>>>>>> Ortrud,
>>>>>> Octavian, and Fricka that she also happened to have been. One of my
>>> few
>>>>>> complete CARMENs on lp is with Ludwig, sung in German; and her Lady
>>>>>> Macbeth
>>>>>> with Sherrill Milnes is a "keeper" too.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Why can't she, and I, or anyone, love "opera" as an art form, a
>>> little
>>>>>> less
>>>>>> than we do the art of music itself?  It's not a disqualification for
>>>>>> Opera-L membership is it?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> dtmk
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Date:    Sat, 1 Apr 2017 10:21:43 -0700
>>>>>> From:    estelle gilson <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: I was not kidding you.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think it says more about the local public being sold a bill
>>>>>> of  goods about an original, unique ,modern and so called "feminist"
>>>>>> reinterpretation.      They were likely also applauding
>>>>>> themselves  for having been there.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Estelle
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> And the fact the audience applauded?  I think that says more about
>>>>>>> how our basic decency and morality has erode over the last few
>>>>>>> decades (duck everyone, because here it comes) and as most recently
>>>>>>> evidenced in the recent US elections.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Charles Handelman
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 1:00 AM
>>>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>> Subject: [Norton AntiSpam]I was not kidding you.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> http://www.cltampa.com/arts-entertainment/performance/articl
>>>>>>> e/20856157/turandot-gets-the-ending-it-deserves-and-its-bril
>>>>>>> liantly-feminist
>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Date:    Sat, 1 Apr 2017 17:41:33 +0000
>>>>>> From:    Miguel A De Virgilio <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> Subject: Grigolo last nigh In "Hofmann" L.A. Opera
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This was the 4th time I hear Grigolo in person: twice in recital
>>> (Broad
>>>>>> Sta=
>>>>>> ge, Santa Monica) and twice in opera (L..A. Opera: R&J  and Hofmann)
>>>>>> He has made significant improvements since the first time I hear him
>>>>>> live. =
>>>>>> His upper register is more secure and  "meaty" and his pianissimos
>>> are
>>>>>> mor=
>>>>>> e audible.
>>>>>> However his middle, when singing full voice had acquired a
>>>> characteristic
>>>>>> t=
>>>>>> hat I can describe as full  " bubbles" as a carbonated drink.
>>>>>> In the acting department he has received kudos for his  "acrobatics"
>>>>>> displa=
>>>>>> y such as walking while squatting and singing at the same time.
>>>>>> It should be noted , that his "acrobatic" predecessor Luis Lima while
>>>>>> singi=
>>>>>> ng Nemorino in San Francisco (a few decades ago) did the vertical and
>>>>>> walke=
>>>>>> d with his hands
>>>>>> while singing (of course not Una Furtiva).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Miguel de Virgilio
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> End of OPERA-L Digest - 1 Apr 2017 - Special issue (#2017-329)
>>>>>> **************************************************************
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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