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Subject: Re: Enduring soprano voices
From: Vesna Danilovic <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Vesna Danilovic <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Wed, 15 Mar 2017 12:15:52 -0500
Content-Type:text/plain
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Parts/Attachments

text/plain (657 lines)


Let's also add Leonie Rysanek if 45 is the cutting point for age. Born in
1926, she could still be thrilling, especially in Strauss, in the 1970s and
even in the early 1980s (her Elektra in the '81 film version is terrific).

Best, Vesna

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 10:51 AM, David Shengold <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>
> May I suggest Helen Donath, Elisabeth Gruemmer, Soile Isokoski and Eidé
> Norena?
>
> Best- David Shengold
>
>
> .............................
>
> Tom Ponti wrote:
> Probably the most consistent great sopranos past 45 were: Sutherland,
> Caballe, Freni, Devia, Edita Gruberova, Kirsten, Nilsson, and dare I say,
> Amara? No doubt there were others, but I can't think of any right now.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* OPERA-L automatic digest system <[log in to unmask]>
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:19 AM
> *Subject:* OPERA-L Digest - 15 Mar 2017 - Special issue (#2017-269)
>
> There are 6 messages totalling 521 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics in this special issue:
>
>   1. Opera as awakening
>   2. Leontyne Price - Fanciulla del West (4)
>   3. Pretentious Quotes
>
> **********************************************
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>
> Date:    Wed, 15 Mar 2017 09:14:01 -0400
> From:    R PRADA <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Opera as awakening
>
> I am sure there are many stories of kids awakening to opera as presented
> on S=
> aturday afternoon radio broadcasts.
>
> By the time I was five I was listening every week with the housekeeper as
> sh=
> e ironed. Opera for me was thrilling. I remember Aida as exciting and
> grand.=
> I marched around the kitchen pretending to play a trombone during the
> trium=
> phal march.
>
> I don't think opera has ever taken on an intellectual cast for me. It is a
> f=
> ire in the belly. Yes, I know lots about it. I like some more than others.
> T=
> hat is personal and based on attraction. My taste has changed some over
> the y=
> ears. That is pure affinity.
>
> RP
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Mar 15, 2017, at 8:56 AM, OPERA-L automatic digest system <
> LISTSERV@LIS=
> TSERV.BCCLS.ORG> wrote:
> >=20
> > For lots of people, opera in general *is* boring
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Wed, 15 Mar 2017 06:40:06 -0700
> From:    Max Paley <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Leontyne Price - Fanciulla del West
>
> =46rom how Price talked about the "Fanciulla" experience later, it's clear
> t=
> hat the experience of having her voice, as you put it, "give out
> completely"=
> absolutely terrified her. Someone with less grit would have probably
> cancel=
> led all future performances of the opera and everything else, but she was
> a p=
> ro.
>
> She talked about how she retreated to Rome as soon as she could to rest
> and t=
> hink. She was ecstatic to find herself able to "scream my lungs out"
> before l=
> ong, but she also clearly applied deep thought toward how she would manage
> h=
> er voice and career moving forward.=20
>
> =46rom that point on, she seemed to do what she felt was right for her and
> d=
> idn't care so much what anyone else thought. Later on, she advised young
> sin=
> gers on the importance of bring able to tune out "the noise."
>
> She once said that her least favorite of her own recordings was the first
> "Fo=
> rza" (the Schippers set with Tucker) because she felt she was "not in
> voice"=
> for those sessions. She wasn't happy with several of her "Cosi fan tutte"
> l=
> ive performances but she was quite proud of the recording.
>
> One of my favorite recordings of hers is the Handel "Care selve" that
> opened=
> Vol. 2 of her "Prima Donna" series. It's absolutely clean, pure, silver
> sou=
> nd.
>
> Max Paley
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Mar 15, 2017, at 05:56, Bob Rideout <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >=20
> > Walter
> >=20
> > This is actually what happened -
> >=20
> > She sang the role on Opening Night of the Met 1961
> > season.
> >=20
> > I attended the second performance. which was interrupted
> > for over an hour, when her voice gave out completely in the
> > middle of act two. Dorothy Kirsten, who reportedly had
> > retired for the night, was called at home and arrived as
> > quickly as she could to sing the third act, wonderfully, I might
> > add. Price gave no hint of distress in act one. She sounded just
> > fine!  The date was 10/31/61.
> >=20
> > Walter, barely a month later, on 12/4, she sang a complete
> > performance at the Met,
> >=20
> > During the Spring 1962 tour she sang the opera at both
> > Cleveland and Dallas.
> >=20
> > Walter, words matter!
> >=20
> > Bob
> >=20
> > **********************************************
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Wed, 15 Mar 2017 10:02:18 -0400
> From:    Buoso Donati <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Leontyne Price - Fanciulla del West
>
> In Dorothy Kirsten's autobiography, she recalls a meeting with with Bing =
> to
> discuss the coming season and which roles she would be singing.
>
> Kirsten had been giving Bing a bit of a hard time, turning down roles he
> offered that she wasn't interested in doing, for various reasons.
>
> During the discussion (I'm paraphrasing here) Bing informed her that he h=
> ad
> nothing to offer her for the coming season "what with Miss Price and all"=
> .
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Wed, 15 Mar 2017 10:51:27 -0400
> From:    donald kane <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Pretentious Quotes
>
> It has been clear for quite some time now, that "GCR" gets satisfaction
> out of digging up provocative statements about opera from a variety of
> sources, and posting them to see what happens.  What's wrong with that?
> Can't we just get used to it, the way we have to get used to a tsunami of
> conflicting data on when, where, and how a celebrated diva sang what, as,
> currently in the case of Leontyne Price,  around whom the waters have still
> not receded?  Nothing new about any of it.
>
> As a matter of fact, the belittling of opera's stature as a form, in
> relation
> to the art of music in its entirety, is understandable, and depending on
> the musical historians being quoted, more than justified as food for
> thought.
> What I do question is the purpose of offering quotations under the name
> "anonymous".  Who wants to agree or disagree with him?
>
> dtmk
>
> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 11:54 PM, Jon Goldberg <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > Boy how you do seem to be (*seem* to be???) obsessed with some fabricated
> > "class
> > system" of operas and with "serious study" of opera. So many of your
> > quote-pulling posts
> > seem to echo these concepts. One would think by now you'd want to talk
> > about something
> > else, lol.
> >
> > That said - in the world at large (i.e. not in our little opera-obsessed
> > bubble), there is most
> > likely no such thing as "middlebrow" opera. For lots of people, opera in
> > general *is* boring,
> > partially because it's seen as being so pretentiously highbrow. We know
> > that perception is
> > wrong, but still that perception exists. (And the same goes for
> > perceptions about classical
> > music in general, of course.)
> >
> > Ironically, I think it's only the most self-important, self-proclaimed
> > "highbrow" opera fans
> > who rate popular operas as "boringly middlebrow." Personally, I find
> those
> > kind of so-called
> > opera fans boringly faux-highbrow, and really don't want to have anything
> > to do with them.
> >
> > I like a good mix of the standards AND the more obscure, adventurous rep,
> > as I assume
> > most all of us do (save you and Mr. Grossman, lol). I see no problem in
> > that. I think Mr.
> > Grossman should be permanently locked in a padded cell with some of that
> > typical
> > Hollywood fodder (whatever that means) and some really boring Aida Boheme
> > and
> > Carmen. I think that would be proper Mikado-like punishment. ;-)
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 22:55:54 -0400, Genevieve Castle Room
> > <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > >>1) Most works in the standard (i.e., boringly middlebrow) operatic
> > >repertoire do not warrant serious study and deserve to be seen no more
> > than
> > >typical Hollywood fodder.
> > >
> > >(Andrew Grossman)
> >
> > **********************************************
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> >
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Wed, 15 Mar 2017 15:08:15 +0000
> From:    William Fiorelli <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Leontyne Price - Fanciulla del West
>
> Bing had envisioned Price singing heavier roles- even Abigaille in
> NABUCCO.=
> =C2=A0 Bing also asked Tucci if she would consider singing FANCIULLA. She
> w=
> isely turned him down.BILL
>
>
>       From: Max Paley <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 9:40 AM
> Subject: Re: Leontyne Price - Fanciulla del West
>   =20
> From how Price talked about the "Fanciulla" experience later, it's clear
> th=
> at the experience of having her voice, as you put it, "give out
> completely"=
> absolutely terrified her. Someone with less grit would have probably cance=
> lled all future performances of the opera and everything else, but she was
> =
> a pro.
>
> She talked about how she retreated to Rome as soon as she could to rest
> and=
> think. She was ecstatic to find herself able to "scream my lungs out" befo=
> re long, but she also clearly applied deep thought toward how she would
> man=
> age her voice and career moving forward.=20
>
> From that point on, she seemed to do what she felt was right for her and
> di=
> dn't care so much what anyone else thought. Later on, she advised young
> sin=
> gers on the importance of bring able to tune out "the noise."
>
> She once said that her least favorite of her own recordings was the first
> "=
> Forza" (the Schippers set with Tucker) because she felt she was "not in
> voi=
> ce" for those sessions. She wasn't happy with several of her "Cosi fan
> tutt=
> e" live performances but she was quite proud of the recording.
>
> One of my favorite recordings of hers is the Handel "Care selve" that
> opene=
> d Vol. 2 of her "Prima Donna" series. It's absolutely clean, pure, silver
> s=
> ound.
>
> Max Paley
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Mar 15, 2017, at 05:56, Bob Rideout <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >=20
> > Walter
> >=20
> > This is actually what happened -
> >=20
> > She sang the role on Opening Night of the Met 1961
> > season.
> >=20
> > I attended the second performance. which was interrupted
> > for over an hour, when her voice gave out completely in the
> > middle of act two. Dorothy Kirsten, who reportedly had
> > retired for the night, was called at home and arrived as
> > quickly as she could to sing the third act, wonderfully, I might
> > add. Price gave no hint of distress in act one. She sounded just
> > fine!=C2=A0 The date was 10/31/61.
> >=20
> > Walter, barely a month later, on 12/4, she sang a complete
> > performance at the Met,
> >=20
> > During the Spring 1962 tour she sang the opera at both
> > Cleveland and Dallas.
> >=20
> > Walter, words matter!
> >=20
> > Bob
> >=20
> > **********************************************
> > OPERA-L on Facebook:
> > http://www.facebook.com/groups/25703098721/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------=
> -
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>   =20
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Wed, 15 Mar 2017 15:18:44 +0000
> From:    tom ponti <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Leontyne Price - Fanciulla del West
>
> Last night, on You Tube, I heard several performances of Pace Pace Mio Dio
> =
> by Price in the early-mid eighties. Not as good as in her prime, but still
> =
> wonderful and better than most singing the role then. It seems that most
> gr=
> eat sopranos, past 45 have vocal difficulties and off nights. Certainly
> Cal=
> las, Tebaldi, Victoria dLa, Price and Milanov did. Probably the most
> consis=
> tent great sopranos past 45 were: Sutherland, Caballe, Freni, Devia, Edita
> =
> Gruberova, Kirsten, Nilsson, and dare I say, Amara? No doubt there were
> oth=
> ers, but I can't think of any right now.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Discussion of opera and related issues <[log in to unmask]>
> o=
> n behalf of Max Paley <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 9:40 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [OPERA-L] Leontyne Price - Fanciulla del West
>
> From how Price talked about the "Fanciulla" experience later, it's clear
> th=
> at the experience of having her voice, as you put it, "give out
> completely"=
> absolutely terrified her. Someone with less grit would have probably cance=
> lled all future performances of the opera and everything else, but she was
> =
> a pro.
>
> She talked about how she retreated to Rome as soon as she could to rest
> and=
> think. She was ecstatic to find herself able to "scream my lungs out" befo=
> re long, but she also clearly applied deep thought toward how she would
> man=
> age her voice and career moving forward.
>
> From that point on, she seemed to do what she felt was right for her and
> di=
> dn't care so much what anyone else thought. Later on, she advised young
> sin=
> gers on the importance of bring able to tune out "the noise."
>
> She once said that her least favorite of her own recordings was the first
> "=
> Forza" (the Schippers set with Tucker) because she felt she was "not in
> voi=
> ce" for those sessions. She wasn't happy with several of her "Cosi fan
> tutt=
> e" live performances but she was quite proud of the recording.
>
> One of my favorite recordings of hers is the Handel "Care selve" that
> opene=
> d Vol. 2 of her "Prima Donna" series. It's absolutely clean, pure, silver
> s=
> ound.
>
> Max Paley
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Mar 15, 2017, at 05:56, Bob Rideout <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > Walter
> >
> > This is actually what happened -
> >
> > She sang the role on Opening Night of the Met 1961
> > season.
> >
> > I attended the second performance. which was interrupted
> > for over an hour, when her voice gave out completely in the
> > middle of act two. Dorothy Kirsten, who reportedly had
> > retired for the night, was called at home and arrived as
> > quickly as she could to sing the third act, wonderfully, I might
> > add. Price gave no hint of distress in act one. She sounded just
> > fine!  The date was 10/31/61.
> >
> > Walter, barely a month later, on 12/4, she sang a complete
> > performance at the Met,
> >
> > During the Spring 1962 tour she sang the opera at both
> > Cleveland and Dallas.
> >
> > Walter, words matter!
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > **********************************************
> > OPERA-L on Facebook:
> > http://www.facebook.com/groups/25703098721/
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> L
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of OPERA-L Digest - 15 Mar 2017 - Special issue (#2017-269)
> ***************************************************************
>
>
>

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