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Subject: Re: Am I late to the Fair?
From: Donald S <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Donald S <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Sun, 1 Jan 2017 23:15:42 -0700
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The Puccini family and Ricordi actually sued over that one and won. Fanciulla was still in copyright at that time. 

Donald 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 1, 2017, at 10:44, Jon Goldberg <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> Exactly so, Donald. ;-)
> 
> And so many times we tend to *hear* similarities because there are just certain natural 
> ways that a note wants to lead to the next one, or a chord leads to the next one, etc. Basic 
> progressions and turns of melodic phrase that seem inevitable. (I think it indeed was 
> Leonard Bernstein that talked about new music wanting to sound "fresh but inevitable.") 
> So we're inevitably bound to hear similarities in various pieces. Sometimes composers DO 
> deliberately quote another piece, perhaps slyly, perhaps overtly. But more often than not, I 
> think it might only be after that fact that a similarity is discovered - and by that point, I 
> tend to think most composers ain't gonna change what they wrote even if it *does* evoke 
> another piece. 
> 
> The initial theory that came up yesterday - that Nino Rota borrowed from Mussorgsky - 
> well, probably not. Rota probably came up with his choices of how to use arpeggiated 7th 
> chords independent of anything sung by Rangoni to Marina. (And I'm sure that related 
> musical gestures - the piano accompaniment to Chicago's "Color My World," the iconic 
> instrumental break in Rod Stewart's "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy," and the opening phrase of 
> Jerry Herman's "Before The Parade Passes By" - all based on arpeggiated 7th chords - also 
> found their way in without any necessary knowledge of either Rota OR Mussorgsky lol.) 
> Likewise, I think it's a real stretch to say that Bernstein was thinking of Peter's melody in 
> Hansel Und Gretel when writing "Carried Away" (the two melodies are not identical in notes 
> or rhythm, though yes, there is certainly a certain general link - but again, they're just 
> both based on descending minor scales, which is certainly not uncommon), even if indeed 
> Bernstein/Comden/Green were deliberately looking to do some fun operatic pastiche in 
> that song. 
> 
> One of my favorites has always been the ending of Barber's "Sure On This Shining Night" - 
> once you realize that the last phrase in the accompaniment really does evoke "Lullaby Of 
> Broadway," it's hard to un-hear that. But I truly doubt that's what Barber had in mind. ;-)
> 
> A happy new year to all, and here's to many fun musical discoveries in the year ahead. ;-)
> 
> 
>> On Sun, 1 Jan 2017 11:01:07 -0500, donald kane <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>> but no, there doesn't need to
>> be a reason for any of these things,  whether deliberate, unconscious,
>> playful, or opportunistic, it must be remembered, that there are only
>> so many different notes available, and some arrangements of them
>> happen to work better than others, especially for a composer.
> 
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