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Subject: Re: Fwd: Am I late to the Fair?
From: Jon Goldberg <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Jon Goldberg <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Sat, 31 Dec 2016 17:51:32 -0500
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Not really note for note (Bernstein adds a moving scale note that Strauss, I guess, forgot 
about, lol) and we're really talking about a similarity in just the *2nd phrase* of each 
melody (the first phrase doesn't really match up at all, though I suppose the aural illusion 
is that once you've heard that 2nd phrase you *think* you've just heard the whole 
beginning of the tune as well.) ;-)

However, there is no "big tune" called "There's A Place For Us." There IS, of course a song 
called "Somewhere." (First sung, by the way, by one Reri Grist on Broadway.)

Another theory for the origin of the "Somewhere" melody is that it's a further development 
of a recurring theme in Candide, which Bernstein had written just the year before. (Listen 
to the orchestral intro to "Make Our Garden Grow" for one use of the theme - the same 
contour of a wide interval up and then heading back down). Another is that it's a sort of 
liberal "inversion" of the tritone theme that forms the sung name "Maria" in the song of the 
same name - the upward reach of the 3rd syllable contrasting with the downward reach of 
"place" in "Somewhere." Or hey, he could actually have had the Strauss melody in the 
back of his head. I'm not necessarily convinced it's an outright steal, but it would be foolish 
to say that composers aren't influenced, consciously or subconsciously, by other music 
they know. Of course they are. 

Speaking of Strauss - when Zerbinetta gets to the beginning of the Rondo theme in 
"Grossmachtiger Prinzessin," is that a deliberate jab at "Ah, Non Giunge?" ;-)



On Sat, 31 Dec 2016 14:56:17 -0500, donald kane <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>From: donald kane <[log in to unmask]>
>Date: Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 9:51 AM
>Subject: Re: Am I late to the Fair?
>To: Idia Legray <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
>Bernstein was a heavy "borrower". Another big tune from
>WSS is "There's A Place or Us" which is, note for note, a
>melody created by Richard Strauss for his Burleske For Piano
>and Orchestra.  It's difficult to sort out the resemblances that
>may have been deliberate and the ones that are coincidental.
>
>
>dtmk
>
>On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 9:05 AM, Idia Legray <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> Listening to the end of Gotterdammerung the other day, I suddenly
>> stopped "mid listen" to hear Leonard Bernstein's "I have a love and it's all
>> (that I need)..."
>> Is this a known thing by everyone but me till now?
>>
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