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Subject: Re: OPERA-L Digest - 19 Nov 2016 - Special issue (#2016-1153)
From: Peter Bloch <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Peter Bloch <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Sun, 20 Nov 2016 12:34:31 -0500
Content-Type:text/plain
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Parts/Attachments

text/plain (572 lines)


Great idea:  get Opera not Opera News.  I don't know what readers Opera News management thinks is going to buy their pathetic pamphlet.  If someone wants People or Vogue or Glamour they're going to get the real thing, not a third rate imitation.  And real opera fans, like me, are not going to waste money on this thing anymore 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 19, 2016, at 5:34 PM, OPERA-L automatic digest system <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> There are 8 messages totalling 548 lines in this issue.
> 
> Topics in this special issue:
> 
>  1. Opera News Online (4)
>  2. - Manon Lescaut comment
>  3. Clarification of my Tebaldi - Manon Lescaut comment
>  4. Dimitri Mitropoulos
>  5. Erede conducting early Tebaldi Decca discs.
> 
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Date:    Sat, 19 Nov 2016 11:50:18 -0500
> From:    Kiwi <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Opera News Online
> 
> Agree completely.   A couple of years ago, I think, there was an issue which 
> had some light criticism of the Met or Met management--forget the specific 
> details--and Mr. Gelb was having none of that.  Although at the time Opera 
> News was associated with the Met, it also had some independence (necessary 
> for legitimacy) and so was able to be a more balanced, interesting magazine. 
> After that incident, it seems to me the entire purpose for Opera News 
> changed and it became simple PR, with no bite, little zing, and much fluff 
> and stuff.  Even the reviews seem telescoped through a PR vantage point.
> 
> They also seem highly politicalized.  They did a series of reviews from the 
> Salzburg Summer Festival--and left out the big draw of Otello completely. 
> Good, bad, or indifferent, the production was the centerpiece and they 
> ignored it.  To my eyes, they seem to be spending more time of US theaters 
> (big and small) than on major European houses.  Maybe that's what the crowd 
> wants but for many of us, especially the 'ugly Americans' who are severely 
> language impaired (guilty, though I have tried!) the only way to keep up 
> with what happens on the continent is to have a mag like Opera News report. 
> And NOT just on the productions which star the singers who will be appearing 
> at the Met in upcoming productions.
> 
> One of the only reasons I remain in the guild, since there is precious 
> little reason to actually be a member, is for the magazine.  I used to read 
> it cover to cover.  Now I glance at it and pitch.  Mr. Gelb apparently got 
> his wish:  he has effectively turned a fierce beast into a lap dog for the 
> Met.
> 
> Opinions may vary, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: David Coco
> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 8:25 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Opera News Online
> 
> Is it just me, or does anyone else feel that  the latest re-vamp of Opera 
> News made it even worse? First of all, it is now practically a leaflet - it 
> doesn’t even have a spline. In the old days, if you wanted to save copies, 
> you could at least shelve them and tell which issue was which. Now it just 
> seems to be a bunch of People-type hype with fancy photography. The in-depth 
> features about the broadcasts are gone. Along with the visually ugly Gelb 
> productions, Opera News seems to be another casualty of his administration.
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date:    Sat, 19 Nov 2016 12:09:17 -0500
> From:    Peggy Houdek <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Opera News Online
> 
> Peggy
> 
> (,,,) ^..^(,,,)
> 
> I agree completely.  I began subscribing to Opera News when I was 12 =E2=80=
> =94 that=E2=80=99s a LONG time ago.  I subscribed for many years and =
> then stopped for a few years.  I decided I missed it, so resubscribed =
> this past year.  I too find that I look through it, but barely read =
> anything.  I get more information on Opera L and other websites, so I =
> think I=E2=80=99ll not resubscribe.  n When I moved about a year ago I =
> had to throw away many boxes of them as no one wanted them. Sad, but =
> it=E2=80=99s silly to have piles of magazines sitting around unread.  =
> peggy, no longer peggy from lenox
> 
>> On Nov 19, 2016, at 11:50 AM, Kiwi <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> =20
>> Agree completely.   A couple of years ago, I think, there was an issue =
> which had some light criticism of the Met or Met management--forget the =
> specific details--and Mr. Gelb was having none of that.  Although at the =
> time Opera News was associated with the Met, it also had some =
> independence (necessary for legitimacy) and so was able to be a more =
> balanced, interesting magazine. After that incident, it seems to me the =
> entire purpose for Opera News changed and it became simple PR, with no =
> bite, little zing, and much fluff and stuff.  Even the reviews seem =
> telescoped through a PR vantage point.
>> =20
>> They also seem highly politicalized.  They did a series of reviews =
> from the Salzburg Summer Festival--and left out the big draw of Otello =
> completely. Good, bad, or indifferent, the production was the =
> centerpiece and they ignored it.  To my eyes, they seem to be spending =
> more time of US theaters (big and small) than on major European houses.  =
> Maybe that's what the crowd wants but for many of us, especially the =
> 'ugly Americans' who are severely language impaired (guilty, though I =
> have tried!) the only way to keep up with what happens on the continent =
> is to have a mag like Opera News report. And NOT just on the productions =
> which star the singers who will be appearing at the Met in upcoming =
> productions.
>> =20
>> One of the only reasons I remain in the guild, since there is precious =
> little reason to actually be a member, is for the magazine.  I used to =
> read it cover to cover.  Now I glance at it and pitch.  Mr. Gelb =
> apparently got his wish:  he has effectively turned a fierce beast into =
> a lap dog for the Met.
>> =20
>> Opinions may vary, of course.
>> =20
>> =20
>> =20
>> =20
>> =20
>> -----Original Message----- From: David Coco
>> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 8:25 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Opera News Online
>> =20
>> Is it just me, or does anyone else feel that  the latest re-vamp of =
> Opera News made it even worse? First of all, it is now practically a =
> leaflet - it doesn=E2=80=99t even have a spline. In the old days, if you =
> wanted to save copies, you could at least shelve them and tell which =
> issue was which. Now it just seems to be a bunch of People-type hype =
> with fancy photography. The in-depth features about the broadcasts are =
> gone. Along with the visually ugly Gelb productions, Opera News seems to =
> be another casualty of his administration.
>> =
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> 
>> =
> T------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Date:    Sat, 19 Nov 2016 12:24:31 -0500
> From:    Idia Legray <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: - Manon Lescaut comment
> 
> William Fiorelli said: "The 1959 MET broadcast of ML with Tucker and=20
> Tebaldi is a very fine performance. Not sure if it has been played o SIRI=
> US."
> 
> I hope you also heard the Olivero/Tucker "Manon Lescaut" which, despite=20=
> 
> the lateness of the day for Tucker, who loses a lot of his earlier histri=
> onics=20
> and sobs, presents 2 performances that are spine-chilling.=20=20
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date:    Sat, 19 Nov 2016 12:34:46 -0500
> From:    RAYMOND GOUIN <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Clarification of my Tebaldi - Manon Lescaut comment
> 
> Look at the bright side -- you did not have Sarah Caldwell conducting.
> 
> :)
> 
> Best.
> Ray
> 
> ***
>> On November 19, 2016 at 11:09 AM kurt youngmann <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> =20
>> =20
>> Nowhere is this more the case than in Tebaldi=E2=80=99s Cavalleria record=
> ing. Magnificent singing by her, Bjoerling and Bastianini marred by the lac=
> kluster conducting of Erede.
>> =20
>> But that=E2=80=99s often the case in the house as well. In Chicago, as I =
> keep griping about, we had countless performances with world-class singing =
> that were hampered by the insipid conducting of LOCs longtime music directo=
> r.
>> =20
>> Kurt Youngmann
>> =20
>>>> On Nov 19, 2016, at 8:04 AM, Max Paley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>> =20
>>>> The choice of Erede, a dull conductor, is still a mystery to me. His
>>>> routine conducting often mars many of the Tebaldi's studio recordings =
> from
>>>> the early to mid-50s, when her voice was most glorious.
>>>> =20
>>>> Vesna
>> =20
>> =20
>> =E2=80=9CIgnorance and superstition ever bear a close and mathematical re=
> lation to each other.=E2=80=9D
>> =20
>> =E2=80=94James Fenimore Cooper, quoted in Closures: Webster=E2=80=99s Quo=
> tations, Facts and Phrases, 2008 and Superstitions: Webster=E2=80=99s Quota=
> tions, Facts and Phrases, 2008.
>> =20
>> =20
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Date:    Sat, 19 Nov 2016 14:25:46 -0500
> From:    "Max D. Winter" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Opera News Online
> 
> David Coco wrote:
> 
> "Now [Opera News] just seems to be a bunch of People-type hype with=20
> fancy photography. The in-depth features about the broadcasts are gone.=20=
> 
> Along with the visually ugly Gelb productions, Opera News seems to be=20
> another casualty of his administration."
> 
> I suppose one could blame Gelb; he's always a handy scapegoat, often=20
> justifiably so.  But I think Opera News' content has just been a casualty=
> of=20
> the general dumbing-down at the Met that has seen the demise of any=20
> really informative broadcast intermission features.  And the Met's dumbin=
> g=20
> down has just been a reflection of the appalling dumbing-down in our=20
> culture generally.  Shallowness and ignorance reign supreme.  Why would=20=
> 
> the Met be any different?  One would have wished otherwise, but - as the=20=
> 
> Emperor says in "Amadeus" - "Well, there it is."
> 
> MDW   
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Date:    Sat, 19 Nov 2016 15:04:38 -0500
> From:    Vesna Danilovic <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Dimitri Mitropoulos
> 
> Hi Bob and list,
> 
> We rarely talk about conductors on this forum, but they give life to these
> works (or take it away, e.g., Erede and the likes).
> 
> Wonderful to read these memories of the great Mitropoulos. He was a wizard
> in the pit, IMO. Besides the Met, he was also a regular guest conductor at
> Salzburg and Florence festivals in the late 50s. Luckily these were
> recorded and are the glories of live performances caught on tape.
> 
> I believe that his studio opera recordings were mostly excerpts though,
> done for the Metropolitan Opera Club, and this might explain what Max was
> suggesting. He was one of the most imaginative opera conductors, but my
> sense is that his heart was even more so in the symphonic and concerto
> repertoire. Prokofiev's 3rd piano concerto, which he liked to perform as a
> conductor and pianist, is said to had been his favorite. He also championed
> Mahler, whose live recordings with NYPO are something special to behold.
> 
> Whatever the reasons for the rarity of his studio opera recordings, we
> thankfully have the taped legacy of his live performances. He died before I
> was even born but I so much wish I could have witnessed what you and Don
> shared with us. Thank you.
> 
> Best, Vesna
> 
>> On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 11:29 AM, Bob Rideout <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>> Don and list
>> 
>> I was privileged to see Mitropoulos in four truly memorable
>> performances at the Met during the 1959-60 season -
>> 
>> Butterfly with Antonietta Stella, who, after Renata Scotto, was the
>> greatest Cio Cio San in my experience. She was beautiful to behold,
>> moved with extraordinary grace, and sang with a fullness of tone and
>> a top register that were breathtaking. The production had been hers a
>> year earlier, and they were a near perfect combination.
>> 
>> Cavalleria with Giulietta Simionato. Among my greatest memories!
>> She was defining. Bergonzi was Canio that night.
>> 
>> The premiere of Simon Boccanegra, the evening of Leonard Warren's
>> last complete performance. He died later in the week during "La Forza
>> del Destino" with Tebaldi. Mitropoulos also conducted Boccanegra
>> a month larer when Anselmo Colzani made his memorable Met debut in
>> the title role.
>> 
>> All were superb, as much for the music from the pit as from the stage.
>> Mitropoulos died in Milan before the year was out. To his memory!
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
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> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Date:    Sat, 19 Nov 2016 14:59:12 -0600
> From:    gordon young <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Opera News Online
> 
> The design and layout are terrible! Is it also that we do not find the
> singers they cover interesting. As I said last week they lost me when they
> identified the companies that made Grigolo's outfits. Tasteless!
> 
> Gordon
> 
>> On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 1:25 PM, Max D. Winter <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>> David Coco wrote:
>> 
>> "Now [Opera News] just seems to be a bunch of People-type hype with
>> fancy photography. The in-depth features about the broadcasts are gone.
>> Along with the visually ugly Gelb productions, Opera News seems to be
>> another casualty of his administration."
>> 
>> I suppose one could blame Gelb; he's always a handy scapegoat, often
>> justifiably so.  But I think Opera News' content has just been a casualty
>> of
>> the general dumbing-down at the Met that has seen the demise of any
>> really informative broadcast intermission features.  And the Met's dumbing
>> down has just been a reflection of the appalling dumbing-down in our
>> culture generally.  Shallowness and ignorance reign supreme.  Why would
>> the Met be any different?  One would have wished otherwise, but - as the
>> Emperor says in "Amadeus" - "Well, there it is."
>> 
>> MDW
>> 
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> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Date:    Sat, 19 Nov 2016 22:34:34 +0000
> From:    John Schweger <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Erede conducting early Tebaldi Decca discs.
> 
> In addition to all the comments on who was and was not available, wasn't Te=
> baldi "going with" Erede during these years?
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Discussion of opera and related issues <[log in to unmask]> o=
> n behalf of Vesna Danilovic <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2016 7:20 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Clarification of my Tebaldi - Manon Lescaut comment
> 
>> On Sat, Nov 19, 2016 at 1:46 AM, Max Paley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>> Decca was still a "scrappy" company then, looking to acquire names that
>> would compete with the impressive EMI and RCA rosters.  Aside from Tebald=
> i,
>> they were stronger on the German/Viennese side (particularly for
>> conductors) than on the Italian side.  Di Stefano seemed like a catch.
>> 
> 
> The choice of Erede, a dull conductor, is still a mystery to me. His
> routine conducting often mars many of the Tebaldi's studio recordings from
> the early to mid-50s, when her voice was most glorious.
> 
> Vesna
> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> End of OPERA-L Digest - 19 Nov 2016 - Special issue (#2016-1153)
> ****************************************************************

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