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Subject: Re: november 8 and the rise of barbarism
From: Les Mitnick <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Les Mitnick <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Thu, 10 Nov 2016 16:35:28 +0000
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Why are we talking about this? People are upset enough as it is and this entire election campaign has brought out qualities in people that is almost toxic. I've seen friendships, family relationships, etc, severed over this. I've done some thinking about it. 
It is my feeling that if Hillary had remained in the Senate and completely abjured the Secretary of State position, she';d have done herself a huge favor. She should have steered completely clear of the Obama Administration. Had she done so, there would have been no e-mail issues, no Bengazi, or anything save for the Clinton Foundation flap. I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm nothing if not honest. I think that Barack Obama was a complete failure as a president. He spent his first two years with an ideal set-up: a totally Democratic Congress. Instead of working on jobs and the economy, he preferred to focus on Obamacare, which is going to be broken up into small pieces of clay. I have friends who are going broke from trying to pay for it and now it's going up again. Mr. Obama's foreign policy concerning the issue of ISIS is, to me, a total replay of Neville Chamberlain and his policies of "appeasement" of Hitler in 1938-1940. We all know where THAT got us (thank God for Winston Churchill!). Mr. Obama's foreign policy has led us into a miasma of blunders and mistakes. I'm not even going to allude to the tragedies we've all witnessed in San Barnadino, Orlando, Boston, or in Europe, especially in Paris. Unfortunately, Hillary, to me, unwisely, chose to accept the position of Secretary of State, where she got into all sorts of difficulties with those cursed emails, Bengazi and the like. My feeling is that if she'd have simply remained in the Senate, she'd have saved herself from the problems that beset her from the beginning of the campaign. She became so aligned to Obama that her candidacy was viewed as "a third and fourth Obama term". She never took the opportunity to make her OWN foreign policy clear ----------- it was simply "more of the same" as ISIS was/is spreading like cancer throughout Europe and the Middle East. 
I voted for Hillary, but I was very uneasy about it. Now I'm convinced that her defeat can also be interpreted as a direct repudiation of the policies of Barack Obama. Mr. Obama, Bill, Michelle, and Joe Biden did a lot of work stumping for Hillary, especially during the final week of the campaign. Their support was not strong enough to stop Donald Trump. As it turns out, the polls got bamboozled. Many of those voters who said they were "independents" were nothing of the sort. 
They had long made up their minds to vote Trump. Good, bad, or indifferent, this was the result. 
To argue and fight over this debacle is fruitless. It's turned people against each other, and it's brought into the sunshine the fact that we, as a people, can be very cruel and mean to each other. As a retired History teacher, there is nothing in my background that would have prepared me for a campaign like the one we have just witnessed. The election of 1800 between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson was a bloodbath, but from what I've read, it was nothing like this. It surprises me that no one has challenged anyone to a duel. 
Like Mr. Ponti, I can only hope that Mr. Trump will use the best of his formidable attributes and do something to make things better. They can't get much worse. 
This is only my "spin", and I mean no disrespect to anyone. 

Les/Chicago 


----- Original Message -----

From: "tom ponti" <[log in to unmask]> 
To: "OPERA-L" <[log in to unmask]> 
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 6:43:46 AM 
Subject: Re: november 8 and the rise of barbarism 

I totally agree with your statement about the Clintons. Hopefully, they are gone forever, even though I voted for Bill twice. Hillary's handling or our national secrets by setting up her own private server and continuing to lie about it, IMO, totally disqualified her from becoming president. I voted for Obama twice, and think he is a good president in some respects, however, his foreign policy was rather weak and Obama Care seems to be a near disaster. Trump no doubt is a flawed personality but I do think the mainstream media's vicious bias against him and just about everything he said as well as their blatant support of Mrs Clinton, had me do something I never thought I would ever do, vote for Donald Trump. Perhaps I am totally niaeve , but I honestly do not think Trump is a racist and all the other adjectives heaped on him by Mrs Clinton. True, he can be crude and rude and inarticulate, but I take into account that he is not a career politician and is a lot smarter than many give him credit for. Time will tell, and hopefully, I will not be proven wrong as I have been with other presidents I have voted for. 


________________________________ 
From: Discussion of opera and related issues <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Max D. Winter <[log in to unmask]> 
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2016 5:09 PM 
To: [log in to unmask] 
Subject: Re: [OPERA-L] november 8 and the rise of barbarism 

Yes, I know, no politics, but this is the day after an unprecidented election and some people 
may want to vent. 

I'm not happy (to put it mildly) that Donald Trump is our president. (My wife and I kept 
looking at each other last night and asking, "How did we get to this place?") But on the 
brighter side, the irredeemably corrupt Clintons have finally been purged from our political 
system; in a situation like this, I take my consolation where I can find it. 

Like Dracula in an old Hammer Horror film, just when you thought the Clintons were finished, 
here they would come again, the monster resurrected. One commentator described them as 
"the penicillin-resistant strain of syphilis in our political system." Well, finally we have a cure. 
Unfortunately, the cure may well prove to be as unpleasant as the old mercury and arsenic 
treatments were in treating syphilis 100 years ago. We'll see. I'm an incurable optimist. 

It certainly is going to be a wild ride. Fortunately, our country is extremely resilient. If it can 
survive six years of Richard Nixon and eight years of Barack Obama, it can probably survive 
Donald Trump more-or-less intact. 

MDW 

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