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From: Jon Goldberg <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Jon Goldberg <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Fri, 11 Nov 2016 16:27:35 -0500

text/plain (274 lines)

In terms of the specific use of this listserv, I think we need to be tolerant and 
compssionate with each other in a time like this. Some of us may indeed need to vent, or 
express our fears, etc, using online forums like this - and some of us may feel more 
comfortable doing that with an "online family" they already know (dysfunctional a family 
as it may be, lol) as opposed to just going to a more unfamiliar politically-themed site, 
etc. A monumental thing has just happened in America, whichever side one was on - and 
those of us that expected/wanted the dems to win were really thrown and shocked by the 

There is obviously no comparison to events like 9/11 or the Boston Marathon bombing (I 
was mere blocks away from there when it happened, in the middle of a rehearsal) or other 
horrible tragedies - but for many of us, I think the overwhelming sense of shock and grief 
is the same. 

I remember how compassionate and concerned people were, on the old NY Times Opera 
Forum, in the aftermath of 9/11 (other music/arts forums I belonged to were similarly 
receptive to "off topic" discussions in light of the tragedy). While I don't think we should 
*encourage* political discussion here, I am sympathetic to those in our OPERA-L world 
who feel the need to reach out to what may feel like a safe, comfortable place to express.

Sondheim penned a lyric about national unrest that has been in my head for the last few 
days (in context, about the aftermath of assassination, but I think we can relate it to any 
overwhelming event such as the current one) - "Hurts a while, but soon the country's back 
where it belongs. And that's the truth." And I tend to believe that. Things will normalize - 
we just have to allow ourselves the process of getting there. Yes, I'm scared of what 
trump may do. But I realize it's the shock of the election itself that has made me feel the 
most unsettled in the last few days. And I've been encouraged by the collegiality we've 
seen in the transition so far (including trump's acceptance speech, free of any gloating or 
negativity). I don't like him any more than I did, but I know I will get over the initial shock. 
in time. But I - but we all - need that time.  

So, I beg you all out here - let's be tolerant and understanding and compassionate. After 
all, that's what we want our new president to be. 

And yes, I do welcome getting back to the discussion of opera as well. As a musician, 
music has helped me through the last few days, and I tend to think that music can help us 
all to heal. 

"E vo gridando pace!
E vo gridando amor!
E vo gridando amor!"

On Fri, 11 Nov 2016 13:53:20 -0500, Peggy Houdek <[log in to unmask]> 

>Les, what a terrific post. I so agree with you. I too have been terribly depressed at the 
outcome of the election.  Depressed and fearful.  I also have supported Hillary in both 
elections.  But continuing to bask in fear and hatred just isn’t helpful.  I had thought 
how could anybody vote for him?”  Well, there were lots of “anybodys”, altho not 
as many as voted for Hillary, which something that must be changed somehow in the 
future. It seems to me that the best thing we can do is to express as much concern and 
love as we can to all those we touch.  I have that button “Love trumps hate” which I 
think is more important now than during the election.  So, let’s try to do good work 
wherever we can, even in small gestures, to those in need.  Hopefully, Trump will 
somehow do some good work and we can all express our discontent if he doesn’t.  
Along with trying to express love to all.  Off my soapbox!
>(,,,) ^..^(,,,)
>> On Nov 11, 2016, at 1:16 PM, Les Mitnick <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> I may end up being lambasted off this Board, but here goes: 
>> I agree with Don completely. The election is over; the fat lady has sung; the people 
have spoken, and that's all. I was a Hillary supporter and I feel bad that she lost. 
>> I was depressed about it on Wednesday and yesterday, but now that there are reasons 
for everything. There has been an undercurrent of discontent in this country since BEFORE 
Obama was elected in 2008 (I also voted for Hillary in THAT primary!). The "discontent" 
evolved into a very large sleeping dragon that was growing and growing right before our 
very noses. Neither the Democrats or Republicans seemed to notice. Arthur Miller's 
immortal Willie Loman was residing in homes and apartments all over the country. Few 
seemed to know these people were even ALIVE --------- with families to support and with 
no jobs (or horrendously low paying ones) and if they did, they attributed it to "the shitty 
job market". Bernie Sanders, to his credit, made note of this, and even quoted a line from 
"Death of a Salesman" (the monologue by his wife),. "Attention Must Be Paid". Trump 
actually agreed with Sanders on this one. 
>> An "upset" like the one we have just witnessed does not "just happen". The seeds 
were planted long ago, neither the Democrats or Republicans seemed to see it growing. 
When an "outsider" like Trump can squash sixteen GOP candidates like Godzilla, "attention 
should have been paid" by both Democrats and Republicans. No. It was dissed as a joke, a 
"show biz antic", etc. 
>> In addition to the Willie Lomans of this country, there were those who were vomiting 
from things such as "political correctness", terrorist attacks on our own soil (Orlando, San 
Bernadino, Boston) as well as in Europe, the gun violence, the massacres in movie 
theaters, etc. With all due respect to Mr. Obama, "attention was NOT being paid". 
>> ISIS is now active in 34 countries -------- MORE attention not being paid. Our 
educational system is in shambles Music and Art, so important to enrich one's life and 
soul, are all but extinct in the American Educational System - STILL MORE ATTENTION 
>> In July, a man with a passport from Pakistan was discovered late at night inside of a 
water filtration plant on Chicago's lakefront. How did he get it? NO ATTENTION BEING 
>> I have no idea whether Trump can solve these problems, and neither does anyone 
else. But despite my support for Hillary, and my lifelong Democratic values, I am having a 
very difficult time wondering how this country could survive yet another eight years 
without a major upheaval. 
>> I'm sure that I'm facing a fate here as bad as Radames, Anna Bolena, and Roberto 
Devereux. But I'll try to find a support group. 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Don" <[log in to unmask]> 
>> To: "OPERA-L" <[log in to unmask]> 
>> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2016 5:52:52 AM 
>> Subject: Re: election petition - the valid one - Comments 
>> This is an opera group. I am insulted and incensed that you would use 
>> this as your personal soapbox. I imagine most of us are fed up with the 
>> past interminable election campaigns as it is. What on earth made you put 
>> this political harangue here? Disiplay your concerns in the right place. 
>> Write to your Congressmen if you have issues with the way elections are run 
>> and won in this country. It does no good to bother us, other than to 
>> incite more anger. Please don't tell me to just delete emails like this 
>> as lately people have been using operatic subjects in messages that do not 
>> pertain to opera. 
>> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 4:02 AM, David H Spence <[log in to unmask]> 
>> wrote: 
>>> I do not sign on, that is, on behalf of somebody both winning the popular 
>>> vote and losing in the Electoral College, but for several reasons this time 
>>> that the EC failed to function as it should, which it rarely ever does. I 
>>> also 
>>> chafe at the legacy of Senator and our 36th POTUS LBJ of the state of 
>>> Texas being in effect overturned by a vulgar mouthed, contemptuous 
>>> demagogue, even towards overturning an amendment bearing his name, 
>>> instead of banning our religious liberties in this country, better 
>>> protecting 
>>> them. 
>>> Our nation's founders installed the EC in the interest of protecting our 
>>> people from both mob rule and our individual, smaller, often more rural 
>>> states towards their having a fair and proportional say in our election 
>>> process in this country. Winner-takes-all has a precedent in the heritage 
>>> of 
>>> our founders, but one that is weak - only three states that opted for this 
>>> in 
>>> 1789. Those many occasions, national elections during which winner-take- 
>>> all has served our people well, let both it and the simplicity of its 
>>> format do 
>>> its job. For approximately forty-two states of our Union, it still has 
>>> worked 
>>> this time, but however for eight, all with ten or more votes in the EC, 
>>> apparently it may not have had - while addressing the specter of voter 
>>> intimidation and also the overturning, very in-Constitutional of essential 
>>> features of the VRA(Voting Rights Act) that LBJ got passed fifty years 
>>> ago. 
>>> It was also not abiding by the rule of law for Clinton crony Governor 
>>> McAuliffe to extend voting rights to a high arbitrary number of felons in 
>>> his 
>>> state (VA), but there were minor abuses from the other side of the aisle as 
>>> well apparently, plus cancellation of their privileges would have not 
>>> anywhere nearly quite flipped the state back to red. In conclusion, an 
>>> invocation to the electors in eight states to transition over to 
>>> proportional 
>>> voting to shift at least nearly fifty EC votes to flipping to blue, except 
>>> should Michigan come in favorably for the former first lady, approximately 
>>> forty from among seven states to flip the same way. Those seven most 
>>> likely would or might include Florida, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Ohio, 
>>> Georgia, Wisconsin, and Arizona. 
>>> Measures toward a censure of McAuliffe or perhaps even impeachment 
>>> would also perhaps strengthen the argument we strive to make with this 
>>> petition to further lift our striving, our efforts well above an insipid 
>>> level of 
>>> partisan bickering. Calling for the wholesale abolition of the Electoral 
>>> College accomplishes nothing; it would be most favorable for the health of 
>>> our cause to remove from even this website any advocacy for that cause, 
>>> as it can and should bear no fruit. Thanks for hearing me out. 
>>> David H Spence 
>>> make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19 
>>> P,S. For how much I utterly despise the Clintons, their foundation, their 
>>> legacy I almost hemorrhage at even the idea of posting this. Given 
>>> however the perils we face, not to mention a healthy continuation of their 
>>> legacy in a way to get Orange into office instead - not much of a change in 
>>> a few ways. 
>>> Furthermore it better protects the rule of law, our election process, even 
>>> the very way our Constitutional republic historically was set up to have 
>>> done so. in regards to the Clintons and their corruption, I trust or at 
>>> least 
>>> hope I can trust our people to be able to walk and chew gum at the same 
>>> time- can't we? Hardly at all any help we can trust to have or get from 
>>> Susan Collins (R - Maine) however. 
>>> Let's also keep our police and peaceful demonstrators on our streets in our 
>>> thoughts and prayers during this very fraught and anxious time. 
>>> David H Spence 
>>> ********************************************** 
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>> -- 
>> ​Always keep a roll of baling wire and another of duct tape in your car. 
>> It's amazing how useful it can be. 
>> ********************************************** 
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