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Subject: Re: Bonynge Interview about Pavarotti
From: Jon Goldberg <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Jon Goldberg <[log in to unmask]>
Date:Sat, 1 Oct 2016 17:03:07 -0400
Content-Type:text/plain
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Radames. Unless we're perhaps talking about an opera called Aidha?

("Botha" is correct, of course, lol. I just don't get why people out here keep trying to put an 
H in Radames. I've never seen it spelled that way, except on Opera-L.)

Given that fat shaming is back in the news these days, this thread is also a good reminder 
that it's not just about women. (Not that it should happen to anyone, of course.)


On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 21:39:49 -0700, Maxwell Paley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>Les, a little more context is called for around the Leontyne Price comment.
>
>She did say something like this.  It was in San Francisco in Autumn of 1981.
>
>SF Opera had mounted a big hoopla around a production of “Aida” in which Pavarotti 
was doing his first staged Rhadames.  Aida was Margaret Price and Amneris was Stefani 
Toczyska, Simon Estes as Amonasro and Navarro conducting.  A huge amount of the 
attention was around Pavarotti.
>
>Margaret Price developed a bad case of bronchitis during the run. Company GM Kurt 
Herbert Adler was searching for a reasonable cover and thought of Leontyne Price, who was 
in town at that time doing “Trovatore” with Bonisolli.  Even though Leontyne Price 
later famously did her Met farewell as Aida, at that time in 1981 she had actually quasi 
retired” the role and not sung it for several years.
>
>Adler begged her (it was very special to him, as it was his last season as GMD) and, after 
some reluctance, she started to let herself be persuaded.  When it came to fee discussions, 
she asked Adler “How much you payin’ the fat boy?  I want one dollar more.”  
Aida found its way back into her throat even more easily than she thought and it led her to 
take up more performances, including another run in SF for which she was the planned Aida 
a few years later and the famous Met farewell.
>
>Sergio’s comment has validity.  Sure, it’s gross to see someone vastly 
overweight.  But it’s not like sheer greed and gluttony do that.  Many people eat as 
much as they feel like and eat whatever they feel like and never get grossly fat like that.  
And, yes, there are known ties between obesity and the problems you mention of diabetes, 
heart disease, but actually the causal connection to cancer, particularly liver or pancreatic 
cancer, is still very mysterious to the medical community.  Many very fit and healthy 
people get it and die from it and many very heavy people who never exercise don’t.
>
>I worked with Steve Jobs (not directly, but close enough to be around him a lot) and he 
was not only vegetarian, macrobiotic, etc. but he had an absolute horror of any kind of fat.  
He was always extremely slender, but he developed pancreatic cancer that then spread to 
his liver.
>
>So saying Pavarotti and Johan Botha ate and drank themselves to death by liver or 
pancreatic cancer is passing a judgement about something nobody actually knows about.
>
>Max Paley
>
>> On Sep 30, 2016, at 7:39 PM, Les Mitnick <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>> I have no intention of getting into a pissing match over this. Everyone knows about the 
dangers of carrying around an extra 150 to 200 pounds. It increases the odds for diabetes, 
heart disease, stomach and colon cancers, as well as a plethora of other problems. It's also 
causes blood pressure to rise to dangerous levels. You don't have to be a doctor to know 
that a man who's 200 pounds overweight and eats like a god-damned horse is a walking 
time bomb waiting to explode. 
>> This is not a matter of body shaming. It's a matter of life and death. Any intelligent 
human being knows this. Yes, Pavarotti had a great career, but it could have been a far 
greater and monumental career. He never achieved the artistic potential that his 
magnificent voice warranted. 
>> When Leontyne Price was asked to sing with Pavarotti, she accepted, but she said, 
"provided I get paid more than the fat man" 
>> 'Nuff said...........case closed. 
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> 
>> From: "Sergio da Silva" <[log in to unmask]> 
>> To: "Les Mitnick" <[log in to unmask]> 
>> Cc: "OPERA-L" <[log in to unmask]> 
>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 6:01:16 PM 
>> Subject: Re: Bonynge Interview about Pavarotti 
>> 
>> I know you have a friend who is a doctor but can you provide any medical journal that 
proves your theory of obesity to cause pancreatic cancer. And why this obsession in 
denigrating obese singers? 
>> While Pavarotti was at t he top of his game he overshadowed his competition and had 
quite a long career. 
>> 
>> On Friday, September 30, 2016, Les Mitnick < [log in to unmask] > wrote: 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> <blockquote>
>> --------------------------------------------------------- 
>> 
>> </blockquote>
>> 
>> 
>> 
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