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Subject: Re: Facility charge
From: "Erica F. Obey" <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To:Erica F. Obey
Date:Tue, 12 Aug 2008 15:07:47 -0400
Content-Type:text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
Parts/Attachments

text/plain (629 lines)


Yeah, I'm still struggling to understand the facility charge too.  I finally
came to the conclusion it was a way to pre-tip the woman handing out towels
in the ladies' room in order to hurry up the (ridiculous, don't get me
started on the subject) line.

Erica 

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From: Discussion of opera and related issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of OPERA-L automatic digest
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Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 3:03 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: OPERA-L Digest - 12 Aug 2008 - Special issue (#2008-1019)

There are 12 messages totalling 585 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. Parsifal and anti-Semitism (2)
  2. Yesterday's ticket exchange at the Met (2)
  3. MARCO SCMID
  4. MARCO SCHMID
  5. "subscriptions"
  6. Wagnerian Desiderata
  7. (no subject)
  8. Chinese girls and fireworks:   was  (no subject)
  9. Where to sit at the Met (2)

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Date:    Tue, 12 Aug 2008 09:48:53 -0700
From:    hermine <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Parsifal and anti-Semitism

If I did not know his history, i would never shriek aloud, while 
listening to Wagner,
"This composer hates Jews!"

hermine 

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Date:    Tue, 12 Aug 2008 09:58:31 -0700
From:    Kirsten Lee <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Yesterday's ticket exchange at the Met

Why bother to print out the tix and mail them in the first place? Whey don't
they hold them electronically and have them print the tickets when they go
to the performance after millions of exchanges are completed? Seems like a
terrible waste of trees.

At least for the several packages of trios I got they were charging $1.50
"facility charges" for each opera in addition to $30(?) handling fee. 

Pretty soon Gelb is going to start charging for the use of bathrooms at the
Met and to raise his revenue, take every intermission between every act and
mix diuretics into their water fountain....

Kirsten Lee

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Date:    Tue, 12 Aug 2008 13:02:54 -0400
From:    La Cieca <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Parsifal and anti-Semitism

[log in to unmask]:=20

> ... in addition to the scores and librettos, which the perfect
Wagnerite is supposed to study and analyze before a performance, we have
to deal with several volumes of *theoretical* writings, a thick official
autobiography, an extensive collection of *entretiens* (because that's
what Cosima's diaries are meant to be)...

Now please show us where the *composer* insisted that this study and=20
analysis, especially of the supplementary sources, was necessary to=20
understanding his works in the theater.

In fact, you can't, because R. Wagner didn't ever make any such insistenc=
e.=20
His *intention* surely was that an intelligent and open-minded audience c=
ould=20
derive whatever meaning he wished to convey simply by attending the=20
performances. (He did suggest that the more difficult and demanding works=
=20
would be most optimally experienced in a festival setting, but that is a=20=

practical and aesthetic matter.)=20

If anything, Wagner expected a little too much of his audience's general=20=

background knowledge. For example, he makes only a few suggestions here=20=

and there in the libretto of "Parsifal" to place the story in an era and =
locale=20
where Muslim culture borders on Christian. This uneasy co-existence of tw=
o=20
great belief systems forms an important thematic backdrop to the action o=
f=20
the work. But it seems that since the history of the "Reconquista" era wa=
s at=20
Wagner's fingertips, he assumed that every reasonably intelligent person=20=

should enjoy the same referents.

It is absolutely true that after Wagner's death, there grew up in Bayreut=
h a=20
cult of education about the Master's works, which did extend to his theor=
etical=20
writings about music and even farther to his political and social musings=
. But=20
we have no evidence that Wagner would have encouraged this kind of study=20=

as a prerequisite to the understanding of his music dramas.

I am also willing to accept the idea that those who take on the challenge=
 of=20
recreating Wagner's works, e.g., singers, directors, designers, conductor=
s,=20
have some responsibility to delve into the riches of background material=20=

available to them. They have to be careful, though, to differentiate betw=
een=20
source material directly relevant to the works (i.e., the dramatic and mu=
sical=20
writings), those whose relationship to the meaning of the works is more=20=

tenuous (the writings on race, for example) and secondary analyses that a=
t=20
best sift Wagner's thought through the sieve of the author's sensibility.=
 Even=20
Cosima's diaries reveal far more about the workings of her mind than they=
 do=20
of the Master's.

La Cieca

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Date:    Tue, 12 Aug 2008 13:04:51 EDT
From:    [log in to unmask]
Subject: MARCO SCMID

WE WONDER
Did he ever hear of  what we call "subscriptions"
Werner Engelbert



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Date:    Tue, 12 Aug 2008 13:19:36 -0400
From:    "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: MARCO SCHMID

>Did he ever hear of  what we call "subscriptions"
>Werner Engelbert

I don't buy subscriptions to the LOC or any other opera house because I d=
on't want to be=20
stuck with operas that I don't want to see. For example this season at LO=
C,  they are doing=20
Manon, The Pearl Fishers, Lulu, Porgy and Bess, Butterfly, Tristan, Cav a=
nd Pag and The=20
Abduction. I only want to see Manon because of Dessay and Kaufmann, Lulu =
and the Tristan.=20

I'd rather watch TV than see any of the others. 

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------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 12 Aug 2008 10:50:18 -0700
From:    Jay <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: "subscriptions"

<Did he ever hear of what we call "subscriptions">
 >Werner Engelbert

Subscriptions are never and have never been, for the benefit of the 
subscribers.
Subscriptions are and have always been a (interest free) loan from the 
subscribers to
the company on the promise of projected performances (Operas, Artists 
and dates subject to change...with no recourse for the subscriber).

It is usual and customary to offer the subscribers some small concessions-
best seats, the same seat for the season, a small discount, exchange 
privileges, etc etc;
this is done at the whim of the Marketing Dept. and can and will be revoked
on whim of management for any or no stated reason, with no recourse for 
the subscriber.

As in any 'industry' management always serves it's own interest above 
all others.

J

>  
>

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------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:23:37 -0400
From:    [log in to unmask]
Subject: Wagnerian Desiderata

On Tue, 12 Aug 2008, La Cieca wrote:

> [log in to unmask]: 
> 
> > ... in addition to the scores and librettos, which the perfect
> Wagnerite is supposed to study and analyze before a performance, we have
> to deal with several volumes of *theoretical* writings, a thick official
> autobiography, an extensive collection of *entretiens* (because that's
> what Cosima's diaries are meant to be)...
> 
> Now please show us where the *composer* insisted that this study and 
> analysis, especially of the supplementary sources, was necessary to 
> understanding his works in the theater.

I think that your quotation of my own posting should make it clear that
when I talked about study and analysis, I was talking of the music dramas
themselves, whereas a more complete quotation would show that people who
are truly interested in Wagner will read the other stuff in order to
deepen his analysis of his musical works. 

(For instance, Wagner could hardly have asked the public to read his
autobiogrqphy as a prerequisite to hearing his music, given that the
manuscript remained unpublished in his own times, and didn't come out
until a generation after his death.)

Of course, further distinctions would need to be made. Are we REQUIRED to
read OPERA AND DRAMA in order to appreciate the dramas? Perhaps not, but
then the pamphlet was written as an introduction to Wagnerian aesthetics
and an aid to help the reader understand and appreciate the music. Clearly
the pamphlet on Jewry belongs in another category and one could easily
argue that, if your goal is to get to appreciate Wagner's music you're
better NOT to read it! -) 

Now, that the musical and literary texts of the dramas themselves (at any
rate the mature works) are meant to be an object not of a passing,but of
a lifetime study is, I believe, absolutely obvious.

What a  better proof than the Wagnerites themselves? Typically, they will
have discovered Wagner in their youth, and, now, in their mature years, or
their old age, they are still *studying* the dramas, collecting dozens of
recordings of the same works, and listening to them all the time - as the
process of discovering their beauties appears to be endless, as one
becomes more and more acquainted with the complexities of the leitmotive
system and the subtleties of the sung text.

An understanding of the latter is particularly necessary, and Wagenr has
taken considerable trouble to ensure that every word should be graspec by
the audience.  Monologues that may sound long and dry when one has only a
very general and imprecise idea of what they are about turn into gardens
of Eden when the hearer acquire a clearer notion of their meaning,
sentence by sentence, and this if only in translation surtitles or the
subtitles of a DVD. 

Wagner conceived his works as artistic monuments destined to last forever,
on a par with the Homeric poems, Shakespeare, or Goethe's FAUST - the
classics that have to be studied to be appreciated because they are no
mere texts and pieces of entertainment, but the foundations of culture
itself.

> I am also willing to accept the idea that those who take on the challenge
of 
> recreating Wagner's works, e.g., singers, directors, designers,
conductors, 
> have some responsibility to delve into the riches of background material 
> available to them. They have to be careful, though, to differentiate
between 
> source material directly relevant to the works (i.e., the dramatic and
musical 
> writings), those whose relationship to the meaning of the works is more 
> tenuous (the writings on race, for example) and secondary analyses that at

> best sift Wagner's thought through the sieve of the author's sensibility.

If only they followed the DIRECTIONS a little more! They  are always very
clear and invariably better inspired than most directors' attempts to do
better.

 Even  Cosima's diaries reveal far more about the workings of her mind
than they do 
> of the Master's.

XXX The diaries belong in the German literary tradition of the Gespraeche
or Conversations, e.g.  Luther's Tischgespraeche (or propos de table) or
Goethe's conversations with Eckermann. The main purpose of that literary
genre is to try to preserve a sense of a great individual as a person,
to show us how he was perceived, in daily intercourse, through the eyes of
the people who knew well and loved him. 

Pierre Bellemare

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------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:24:08 -0400
From:    Brad Eppsen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Yesterday's ticket exchange at the Met

I'm sure the long line was not pleasant to go through...but I would hardl=
y call=20
it a fiasco since the MET itself called the TIMES and others to alert the=
m of=20
the long lines at the MET. And GELB gets quoted as saying that the reason=
=20
they have these lines is that the MET is popular. Brilliant.
The other message sent is: don't try to exchange tickets, it's too much o=
f a=20
hassle, which, of course, the MET would be delighted about. 

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Date:    Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:37:26 EDT
From:    [log in to unmask]
Subject: (no subject)

Looks like the voice versus the looks has hit the Olympics. A seven year  
Chinese old girl who was slated to sing the ode to the motherland at the  
Olympics was considered not "cute" enough, and was replaced by a better
looking  
child who lip synched the anthem. In Pakistan there is a ninety year old
woman  
who sings most of the songs in those popular videos. That's why the singers
all  
sound alike.  It was tried with opera as many of you well know with Sophia  
Loren lip synching Renata Tebaldi as Aida.
 I predict that it will be tried in opera again. It will be an attempt  to 
find the perfect singers with the perfect bodies and acting abilities. Now
if  
you want to hear an interesting voice, consider Walter Tetley who did voice

overs for cartoons. He grew up with an unchanged voice and was the voice of

Sherman on the Rocky the Squirrel and Bullwinkle cartoons. That was his real

voice.
 John Rahbeck



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017 )

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------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:53:41 EDT
From:    [log in to unmask]
Subject: Chinese girls and fireworks:   was  (no subject)

 
In a message dated 8/12/2008 2:37:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[log in to unmask] writes:

Looks  like the voice versus the looks has hit the Olympics. A seven year   
Chinese old girl who was slated to sing the ode to the motherland at  the  
Olympics was considered not "cute" enough, and was replaced by a  better 
looking  
child who lip synched the  anthem


I would not want an ugly person singing MY anthem <g>.  BTW--the  Chinese 
also ENHANCED their fireworks.  Nothing worse than wimpy firewords,  right?
Bill Clayton



**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? 
Read reviews on AOL Autos.      
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000
017 )

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Date:    Tue, 12 Aug 2008 14:54:58 EDT
From:    [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Where to sit at the Met

Dress Circle, first row, left or right curve--no contest.
Bill Clayton



**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? 
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017 )

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Date:    Tue, 12 Aug 2008 13:05:34 -0600
From:    Monica Martinez Reyes <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Where to sit at the Met

Hi!
        I also went to the Met for the first time this year, on May. 
Thanks to the advise of the list, I picked a seat on Dress Circle, the 
first row ("A"), on the left side.
        The acoustic was great, and the visuals were better than expected. 
You still need opera glasses if you want to see facial details, but you'll 
be able to see the action quite well.

Best regards.

Monica Martinez









O F <[log in to unmask]> 
Sent by:
Discussion of opera and related issues <[log in to unmask]>
2008-08-12 10:30 AM
Please respond to
O F <[log in to unmask]>


To
[log in to unmask]
cc

Subject
Where to sit at the Met
Classification







As someone who will be attending his first performance at the Metropolitan 
Opera House this year, I am wondering if anyone has any recommendations on 
seating based on acoustics and stage view in the opera house. I am looking 
at obtaining tickets in Grand Tier, Dress Circle, or Balcony sections and 
if there are specific rows or areas I should look into or avoid, I would 
be most grateful. 
Thank you,
OF


 

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End of OPERA-L Digest - 12 Aug 2008 - Special issue (#2008-1019)
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